Saturday, October 22, 2005

More On The Duggar Family



Red Guy in a Blue State has an excellent defense of the very large Duggar family:

Jim Bob Duggar ... is not looking for a handout. He's a real estate broker and former state representative. He can afford it. Last year he built a 7000 square foot house with his two oldest sons. So what's the beef?

Well, they are devout Christians. If that makes Duggar a better person swell. If it makes him a closed minded bigot who only believes that civil rights are for "his kind," not swell. But if his religion plays into his own family planning (and this number is by design), none of our beeswax.

There is another angle that the rest of us will end up having to foot the bill. I don't see how. Again, these people aren't asking for any help from anyone. They can afford this. Does he get a tax break for all those kids? Yes, he does. But he's also self employed, so does anyone really believe he would be paying out loads to begin with? He's also paying property and school taxes on a 7000 square foot house, yet the kids are home schooled. I don't hear any complaints about that. I also don't hear any complaints that the odds of Jim Bob and Michelle having a child die for their country are eight times that of the average family. Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar will introduce 16 (at least) contributors to the social security system, which is just what that stupid ponzi scheme needs.

The number of pups these people want to squeeze out should be their business alone if they can pay the bill. The economic effects on the rest of us merit a thank -you card from society, not derision. Large families are ... tremendously beneficial for the economy. These people have 4 washers and 8 dryers. They built their own home. They spend $1500 a month feeding these children. Does anyone without children realize how much money circulates in the economy when just one child arrives? Ann and I calculated that when we had our third, Gregory, that over half a million dollars changed hands as a result. We added onto the house, bought a larger car (3 child seats. The Duggars have a Partridge Family-esque bus), refinanced 2 rental properties, and bought another investment property upstate. Would we have done it all anyway? Perhaps some of it, but not the addition or car. But you don't need to have half a million dollars change hands to vindicate having a baby. And admittedly, there may be diminishing returns for the economy as you have more children. The 4th child may not get the same new pair of shoes, but rather hand me downs. So be it. Society still wins. Whatever a child may take out of tax revenue they more than replace with commerce. And tax revenue is not the name of the game in this system it is commerce.

Perhaps the criticism is more for the welfare of the children. Maybe they don't get as much love. Folks, love is not a zero sum thing. They have each other too. Is this bad? Trust me on this one, you can't replace a sibling. What about the unique and special things these children will experience? They grow some of their own food. Their home schooling includes violin lessons. The two oldest helped build the new house. The older ones help with the younger ones. Horrors.


There's more where this came from.

And do you wonder how anyone manages a home with 16 children? They'll tell you themselves at their FAQ!

205 comments:

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Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Welcome to my blog! You're part of a flood of new visitors I'm seeing as a result of the show on TLC.

If you like the Duggars, please take a moment and look around; I bet you'll find more here that you like as well.

Click here to check out my current posts!

Thanks for visiting!

ChooseGrace said...

I DIG the Duggars!!! Can't get enough of them. I wonder with the new house, whether or not they have a guest room for me to come visit. I would LOVE to spend some time with them. That part of Arkansas is just gorgeous! Love, Love, Love them Duggars! God bless us everyone!

Anonymous said...

Greetings!

You wrote, "He's also paying property and school taxes on a 7000 square foot house, yet the kids are home schooled."


Jim Bob & Michelle Duggar aren't charged property taxes on their home and the 20-acres it sits on! They made their home a church. Churches are tax exempt. A quick name search at http://www.ar-tax.org in Washington County, Arkansas, shows a 20-acre Duggar owned property with a tax bill of $0.00.

Mmmmm... WWJD? (What Would Jesus Do?)

Anonymous said...

You may want to go back and check the stats again. They are paying taxes and are listed on a few properties. The one they paid $0 for is linked to another property.
Quite a flying leap to say they are a church and tax exempt.

Anonymous said...

The tenants of their income property pay the tax on those properties.

Their home is tax exempt because they call it a church... they worship at home. Why do you think the bill is $0.00?

Call and ask the tax assessor if you don't believe me.

Anonymous said...

I think it is much more sane and simple to worship at home than get all dressed up and drive to the local "house of god".
God is everywhere,in my home-so what if the Duggars consider their home their church?
They are intelligent,resourceful and smart.
I give them credit to go on tv and not crow about their religion.
I had to look up on the internet their religion because I thought they must be Mennonites.
I say they are interesting,devout,
people who at least have convicitons instead of being drones that never understand the system much less use it to their advantage.
They have brains and heart and soul and use them all!
Wish I had them as relatives

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous above - Please re-read the original post; quote "Jim Bob Duggar ... is not looking for a handout." Yet Jim Bob established his home as a church in order to avoid paying property taxes. Ummmmmm... what if everyone did what the Duggar's do???

Anonymous said...

I was horrified with what one man had posted in the SF newspaper about the Duggars. Unbelievable! What is this world coming to? This world is becoming more and more perverse. The Duggars share pretty much the same beliefs I do. I am so thankful my parents were Christian and raised me in a Christian household. For someone to put the Duggars down is just pathetic. I have the uttermost respect for them. I would love to pop in and visit and worship with them on a Sunday. Their children are so beautiful. Children ARE a blessing from the Lord. "Sons are a heritage from the Lord, children a reward from him. Like arrows in the hands of warrior are sons born in one's youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. they will not be put to shame when they contend with their enemies in the gate." Ps 127:3-5. How much simpler does that get. Who cares about finances, how they pay for stuff, blah, blah, blah. It's none of our business. The Lord provides. Plain and simple. I feel many people in today's society are unbelievably selfish. And to put down the Duggar family the way so many are doing is really sad. The Duggar family is a very happy and content family who love the Lord. Who cares about designer clothing. You don't have to keep up with the Joneses to be content and happy. You give and receive from the heart. I didn't have designer clothing growing up. Why do I need that? Does it make me happier? No, not by far. I'm happy and content with going to a thrift store. You can pick up beautiful and decent clothing there. It's the inside what counts, not the outside and to be, the Duggars are just terrific people.

Anonymous said...

I think that this family is amazing for raising so many children and for raising them so well too! I don't think that there is anything wrong with the kids helping Michelle with the younger kids and the housework, they are just learning useful life skills that they will benefit from later in life when they have their own homes and families. I think that more kids should help their parents. God bless the Duggars!

Anonymous said...

I am wondering about college. With the tuition costs being what they are now how is it going to be possible for the Duggars to send all of their children through college?

Anonymous said...

This family is an inspriation to me. They are self reliant and work together well. These people clearly worship and love the Lord our God. Nothin' wrong with that!!! What about the early 1900's when families consisted of dozens of children. We act as though this is unheard of. So what if this couple wants a big family. As long as they love and care for them, who are we to judge?? There are many more things that we SHOULD concern ourselves with like AIDS, poverty, child abuse, etc.....

Anonymous said...

Give me a break! First of all, do you think that their new home, the labor that it took to build it, and all of its new contents were bough with Mr. Duggar's hard earned dollars? Puh-leez! Ever heard of charitable donations? Ever time you see a brand name flash across the screen some company is getting free advertising and they gave up something, namely free products to get it. Why do you think they were shocked to see their new living room set, their new outdoor grill, their new GRAND PIANO...because it was all given to them! Like some many freakish families with huge broods, the Duggars have learned to cash in. It's great exposure for all of the companies involved and the American public's heart strings get tugged when we see tears of gratitude running down Mama Duggar's face. They are being rewarded for breeding exponentially. Whatever. That infuriates me. There are many a middle class family out there with one or two kids who are struggling to make it, but Mama Duggar and her brood get a free grand piano because she squeezed out 16 kids. I say, why don't we all have 16 kids, get 20 acres, and try get as much in the way of pity donations as possible? We can all live off of our land and home school our kids without a care in the world that global resources are dwindling and our miniture tribe is putting even greater pressure on a very stressed earth. We can sleep in peace in our 7000 square feet homes knowing that familes half the size of ours squeeze into 1/100 of the space we live in and many adoptable children go with food, shelter, or any family to call their own everyday.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

I'm always fascinated - though sometimes also repells - when people, faced with an usually large, unusually happy family, react to that scene with hatred.

This is a pro-life blog, and it's always instructive to see how people view their own childlessness or small families as a rebuke, and respond viscerally to it.

Mischa said...

There is absolutely no hatred aimed towards these people from me. If this were 200 years ago and our planet's population weren't spiraling out of control with a significant portion of the world going to bed every night in hunger, I would care less about how many children the Duggars have. And yes even with blessings of bounty we enjoy in this country, this can come to an end if we have too many people to provide for.

The fact remains that we have finite amount of resources on this planet and prolific breeding (particularly when it isn't unusual anymore) will put an even greater stress on an already heavily taxed planet. In one way or another, we have to change our behavior. We're already struggling with energy crises, oil crises, water scarcity, CO2 emissions, loss of wildlife habitats, air, water, and land pollution, more wastes and trash than we can bury, losing farmlands to overdevelopment, finding and utilizig clean energy sources to provide enough power for ever increasing demand, and feeding everyone without degrading the land in the process.

These are problems right here in the U.S., right now. This is not a reaction of a person who doesn't care about the lives of people on this planet. This is a well-informed and well-studied reaction. I think if we were to solve these issues and if an enormous spike in the population wouldn't negatively effect this planet, it would terrific to have large families again, like in the olden days. But these aren't the olden days. And the state and quality of this planet is significantly compromised. If we forge on adding more and more people without any concern that these and other problems will only continue to worsen, we will be condeming our children to lives of hardship the likes of which no generation has ever experienced.

We all share this planet and the consequences of someone else's choice of family size effects me. This is not a visceral reaction to childlessness....this is a visceral reaction to ensuring my own quality of life and survival and the quality of life and survival of my own much smaller number of children.

Anonymous said...

I feel ashamed looking at the tax stats, but felt i had to in order to be able to defend the Duggars with facts. sure enough- total payable online was nearly $6000. This doesn't sound tax exempt to me. do they really only worship at home or do they have a church family somewhere? Does anyone know what denomination they are affiliated with?

Anonymous said...

in response to the "threat" of larger families...these are very evolutionary ideas. it is communist and earth-worship to limit people's family size and trade humans for trees. God has a plan and this world will be dealt with in His timing. We have dominion over the earth and the creatures. They are for our use. Yes we have stewardship of them. But God never intended for us to think about the welfare of trees etc. over the human being. When God says it's over, it's over...not before, not after. Don't worry about too many people- it is a huge lie and hoax that has been used to try to brainwash everyone. Did you know that there is enough space for everyone in the world to be put into a valley or lake or something- i don't remember the exact fact, i will have to look it up, but i was amazed that wherever this seemingly small location is, it would hold every single person in the world (of course i think it is due to the depth, but still). if i can find it, i will get back on here. but anyway, the scientist who said it in his seminar had the fact. and he pointed out other facts that show exactly how much earth is available. we are not going to overpopulate the world- a ridiculous idea that we have been brainwashed with.

Anonymous said...

ok i am back...i was thinking that this scientist said everyone could fit in florida or something, but thought that can't be right...well i did some number crunching. the world population as of today is projected at 6,542,630,943. Florida is 65,758 sq miles which converts to this (pasted directly from the google calculator): 65758 (sq mi) = 1 833 227 827 200 sq feet. so if you take the square footage of florida, which is unbelievably much larger than the number of people in the world, and divide it by the number of people in the world (again pasted from the calculator)- i saw that everyone would fit, but i wanted to see how crowded it would be. 1 833 227 827 200 / 6 542 630 943 = 280.197346 ---i was amazed! over 280 sq ft per person! wow. it is hard to imagine everyone in the USA fitting in florida. But each person in the whole world could fit in florida with 280 sq ft of space! not bad! that means my husband and our two kids would fit there with a combined sq footage of 1120 sq ft. (larger than some houses). anyway, that is amazing- the only way people get away with feeding the people the bull of overpopulation is because it would be easy to believe if you lived in a big city. i myself complain about all the people when i go to a big city. however, i have also flown over and driven through empty land after empty land after empty land in this country. the population is just concentrated in major cities. and even in America's largest cities, there is more empty space than in asian countries. My dad said that when he went to Japan that there wasn't any grassy areas, because if their wasn't a structure built on it, then it was used for growing something. he may have exaggerated, i don't know, but I am glad we have empty space here in the USA. Anyway, even if some places are concentrated with people, the numbers don't lie- I just did this calculation myself- Every person in the whole world could fit in florida with 280 sq ft each. People have been multiplying the earth for a very long time. if we can still fit in florida, then i think we don't have any problems. there is plenty of space on this earth for all of us and the duggar's 16 kids and whoever else's 16 kids too. and all their grandchildren, etc. by the way, i got these numbers from the internet, so if the population is grossly wrong or something, let me know. i have no idea what it should be, but i just found a site that had the numbers projected for each year and it had the number also for today. wow- i can't believe it. i hope this makes people mad that they have been lied to and attempted brainwashed. obviously they think that people are too dumb to do basic arithmetic to figure out that they are lying about overpopulation threats.

buffer67 said...

I was blessed with a home that was able to take in children from broken homes and marriages. I was glad to see that we could make a difference. I see the Duggar family and I am reminded of the blessings that having a large family can bring. It isn't common place to have so many children but I see a look in the childrens eyes that can't be faked., it is the look that each one of them knows that they are loved, the rest doesn't matter. I wish that a lot of parents in todays society would learn just how precious a gift a child can be, I also see it the eyes of the parents. God has blessed them greatly and I feel that they have something that a lot of other people don't and thats faith. God is in control, no matter what happens or the circumstances we find our selves in he is still in control. The needs this family face on a daily basis can be insurmountable to some and yet there they are, no tin cups in the streets, no monkey, or no organ for hand outs just good old ethics and hard work. I believe their ministry is just being who they are and showing us the love that God has for us.

Heather said...

I adore the Duggar's. I think they are doing a great job of raising all of those children. They DO worship at home with quite a large group of family and friends that gather with them on Sunday for service. I believe children are a gift from God, and as long as HE allows them to continue having children, that is their business.

Anonymous said...

Are these parents preparing their children to eventually leave the family home and live independently?

It doesn't appear that way to me.

Anonymous said...

I very much doubt from the TLC special that aired last spring they said they bought so much land so that their kids could one day build their own house on their property and raise their families there.

Anonymous said...

I think they are bit creepy to be honest the children just seem way to behaved , of course its edited so maybe that’s way. I think this people get far too much attention and why because they choose to have 16 children thus overcrowding our already overcrowded world. Lets not give attention to the couple that has 19 kids oh but it doesn’t count because their all adopted.

To have this large of a family in the olden days was different out of 16 kids you’d be lucky if 6 actual made it to adult hood, married and had their own family. When there weren’t many people on earth but that’s not the case our world is already overpopulated and people like this do not help.

Not just that there are only so many resources and those will eventually dwindle not to mentioned we can’t just build up on every available space. Why? This world was not given to just man it was given to all of gods creatures. The Lord expects us to take care of his lesser creatures not take away their homes and habitats

If they love children so much, Why not adopt some children that need a home?,the lord would like that.
Wonder how they will feel when some of their children come out of the closet with that many kids you know at least 3 or 4 of them will turn out to be homosexual

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

When there weren’t many people on earth but that’s not the case our world is already overpopulated and people like this do not help.

Not just that there are only so many resources and those will eventually dwindle not to mentioned we can’t just build up on every available space. Why? This world was not given to just man it was given to all of gods creatures. The Lord expects us to take care of his lesser creatures not take away their homes and habitats

If they love children so much, Why not adopt some children that need a home?,the lord would like that.
Wonder how they will feel when some of their children come out of the closet with that many kids you know at least 3 or 4 of them will turn out to be homosexual


It never fails. Every time another airing of this special airs I get a traffic spike on this post, and someone makes a post like this, with the fiction of the overpopulation of the Earth, the "if they love children so much, why don't they" whatever the commenter expects them to do instead of living their lives the way they choose, and a prediction that some number of the children will turn out gay, or fail to be self-sufficient, or loved, or something.

I used to delete these comments, but no more. I'll leave this one, and any others that don't use too much profanity, as a warning to the many people who still hold to traditional family values. Today people dump on the Duggars. The day is coming when they'll try to outlaw the Duggars. And then they'll be undermining your family.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I very much doubt from the TLC special that aired last spring they said they bought so much land so that their kids could one day build their own house on their property and raise their families there.

9/24/2006 9:21 PM
Anonymous said...
I think they are bit creepy>

I, too, find the parents (more than a bit) creepy...
Sounds to me like they are planning on forming a "cult" - having the children, when adults, live the same sheltered (brainwashed?) life they lived as children on the same property the parents own!!!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I very much doubt from the TLC special that aired last spring they said they bought so much land so that their kids could one day build their own house on their property and raise their families there.

9/24/2006 9:21 PM
Anonymous said...
I think they are bit creepy>

I, too, find the parents (more than a bit) creepy...
Sounds to me like they are planning on forming a "cult" - having the children, when adults, live the same sheltered (brainwashed?) life they lived as children on the same property the parents own!!!

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

I suppose, to someone who thinks that a family can be whatever people might want, to someone who doesn't understand what families really are, that a real family, especially a large one, might look like something else.

Indeed, to people without faith in anything other than their own pleasure, a family with an authentic religious faith might even look a cult.

Anonymous said...

Paul, don't you think that the children are brainwashed by Jim and Michelle?

Christian mom of 6 said...

I'm not Paul, but I would like to comment on your question. No, I do not think the Duggar children are "brainwashed".

I believe that Michelle and Jim are raising their children according to Christian principles. I believe that those children will be happy and healthy adults who will raise their children with similar values.

Anonymous said...

I accidentally left the Tavis Smiley show running on TV. He introduced Janis Kearney, Clinton diarist, as being one of 19 children and the daughter of an Arkansas sharecropper. This must be part of her official bio. A Google search will show that the size of her family is regularly given prominence. It's interesting that no one is asking about her parent's religion (they went to Rankin Chapel — a Baptist church where her father headed up the Sunday School program), or how badly her parents contributed to overpopulation, or whether they should have adopted instead, or whether she and her siblings were brainwashed, or whether they grew up to be independent. What would we say about those people who would raise such questions of a poor African American family? Hmmm...

I can imagine one response: "Oh, that's the reason they get a pass — they were poor." Indeed, the size of her family is being used to demonstrate her humble beginnings. "Look at poor Janis. She made it despite having all the odds against her. Imagine having to survive in a family of nineteen!" Shock! Horror! But using poverty as an excuse, as liberals are wont to do, can only go so far, which is not far at all. Underlying the poverty excuse is a flawed assumption: the quality of life in a large family has got to be worse than the quality of life in a family meeting zero (or less) population goals. But this ain't necessarily so. In the case of the Duggar family, we see a critical mass of shared labor. It's not a brood of 19 pups burdening their parents and society. Rather, it is a loving, unified, cooperative whole. It reminds me of parents of relatively large families who have told my wife and me, "Yeah, once you have three children, you may as well have more. It really doesn't make a lot of difference after that."

Anonymous said...

I don't see how Michelle can "homeschool" 16 kids. The children appear to be intelligent, but if they are not taught the basics, I don't see how they can ever be self sufficient.

I haven't seen any comments about the "clothing" the girls wear. It would be just as inexpensive to purchase or sew nicer clothes for the girls. It seems to me that the parents are "teaching" the children to be asexual, rather than teaching them abstinence until marriage.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

I don't see how Michelle can "homeschool" 16 kids. The children appear to be intelligent, but if they are not taught the basics, I don't see how they can ever be self sufficient.

You mistake. The Duggar children not only know the basics, but they also all play musical instruments. How can their mother homeschool 16 kids? Ask rather how a public school teacher who doesn't love, or even really know, her 30 public school students, can educate them in the small number of hours alloted in a school day, while also fulfilling all the other bureaucratic requirements of public schools. The answer you'll get is that all too often, that public school teacher doesn't succeed in teaching the basics. And besides, with all the cases of public school teachers molesting children we've heard about the last few years, why take the risk?

It was in small, mixed-age classrooms like Michelle Duggar's that kids used to learn history, advanced maths, Greek & Latin, classics of literature, and many other disciplines that are today lost to all but the most advanced college students. In homeschools across America, that heritage is being reclaimed.

I haven't seen any comments about the "clothing" the girls wear. It would be just as inexpensive to purchase or sew nicer clothes for the girls. It seems to me that the parents are "teaching" the children to be asexual, rather than teaching them abstinence until marriage.

Interesting use you make of quotation marks. Don't you agree that the Duggar girls wear clothing? Not revealing enough for you? The parents are teaching their children modesty (if you'd been educated in the basics, you'd have heard of modesty -- it's not heard much of these days, but it used to be a highly-regarded virtue). How sexually provocative do you think minor children should dress? Are you a public school teacher? There are a lot of us out here in flyover country who believe that popular fashion for young girls is fast becoming a disaster. I think the Duggar girls make a dignified, even classy, impression.

Anonymous said...

Why do they need 4 washers and 8 dryers to do 7 loads of laundry a day??? Except for the infants who dirty their outfits almost every time they poop, that would be like 1 load maybe??? I don't think professional football teams make 7 loads of laundry a day!!!

That pantry is ridiculous. All that canned processed food. They're so proud of having 20 acres. Plant potatoes, corn, beans, peas, tomatoes, cucumbers for the pickle addicts in the family etc. I grew up in a family of 5 and we had a garden the size of an average house. Our whole summer was one non-stop session of weeding, harvesting, cleaning the produce, and canning or freezing. You want to have a home school lesson that will have family-wide benifts? Put away the shopping cart and pick up a hoe. And that means everybody...boys and girls.

How come the boys get cushy jobs like stocking that darn pantry and taking out the trash, while the girls are stuck in the kitchen and laundry? (Although, much to her credit, the daughter assigned to the laundry had no problem calling everybody in to help put that mess away. Wonderful display of backbone.)

The last show I saw was the one of the family vacation filmed and narraited by the oldest son, and he bragged on being a video geek. Now, seeing as how they pride themselves on not having a TV or computer, just exactly how do they justify, let alone watch, his little hobby? I am actually very proud of his independent thinking; I just hope they afford the same luxury to the girls!!!

I thought the whole reason of wearing the drab, ugly outfits was to not draw attention to yourself, but they made a very big deal of a baby girl being on the way so they could dig out the pink ribbons and bows. When they had the big house reveal, the baby had a head ribbon on. Not very plain to me. More like a typical proud mother of a beautiful little girl.

And speaking of those clothes. Remember the picture they show of Michelle as a teenage CHEERLEADER!!! And how dear Jim Bob ***gag*** met her a yougurt shop??? When did she get so pious??? Will they let those girls get a summer job at a malt shop? Puh-leez. Will they teach the girls how to buy and sell real-estate like Mom, or will they be expected to be financally dependant on their husbands?

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

That pantry is ridiculous. All that canned processed food. They're so proud of having 20 acres. Plant potatoes, corn, beans, peas, tomatoes, cucumbers for the pickle addicts in the family etc.

Once again, we see how some people are just threatened, and insist that in some respect, the Duggars should modify their lives to please them.

As for how many loads of laundry they do, I'm guessing this commenter doesn't have kids. My three generate one or two per day on average. I can only imagine how many loads the Duggars might need to do.

I also notice in this comment some evident distress at the notion that males and females might be assigned differing tasks. Some of us still like to have gender-specific roles in our lives.

What continues to amaze, however, is how intolerant liberals often prove to be in practice.

Anonymous said...

Here's something to think about. For a family who professes to want to be in the world but not of the world, why have a web-site, complete with messages from Michelle and Jim-Bob, and recommended web-sites for like thinking individuals??? I thought they didn't want to do anything that would attract attention to themselves rather than the message of their lives?

The show where the whole crew packed into one little bitty RV complete with food becuase God knows if they stop at McDonalds it will break the bank. Not one of those brilliant homeschooled geniuses could figure out that "Hey Dad, we might be just a little over loaded here!!!" Nope, they wait until they realize that it took them 2 hours to go 85 miles that they might have a problem. So they dig out a CELL PHONE of all the modern marvels to get Grandad to come to the rescue.

And as for the people who justify this huge brood on the families of 100 years ago, my Grandfather was one of 22 children, only one of which died with the mother of the first 11 kids. But here's a clue. THEY ALL HAD LIVES AND CAREERS AND MOVED OUT!!! My grandfather had older brothers and sisters he barely knew because they were out of the house by the time he was 5 or 6 years old. They had gender-based chores based on the times. The boys helped in the fields and with the animals while the girls helped in the house and the garden. But my Grandpa knew how to make bread and one of his sisters worked in a munitons plant in Seattle during WWII. Not exactly something you can picture one of the Dugger kids doing huh? Now, I realize that these kids aren't old enough to be out on they own, but did you catch what Dad said about them building on the property too?

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

The contempt continues. Is "in the world, but not of it" such a hard concept to grasp?

It doesn't mean that they're Amish. It doesn't mean that they reject modern technology. And it doesn't mean that they have to be secret or anonymous.

It does mean that they live by a different set of values than that popular in the secular world today. It also means, in their case, that they want to provide an example contrary to that to be found in most mainstream media today.

Liberals claim to understand these sorts of things, but when faced with it in reality, they're remarkably contemptuous of it. And even threatened by it.

That couldn't be because you realize that in the coming generation, Jim Bob & Michelle's kids will out-vote your kids, and those of every one of your friends combined, could it?

Anonymous said...

Paul,

As the author of the post about the family growing their own food, I have 4 kids 20, 18, 17 & 4. The 2 oldest ones do their own laundry not only because of their jobs their clothes can't be washed with the family laundry...but because I taught them how!!! (Read: They still live at home!!! Pretty radical for a "liberal") But yes, I do one or two a day, but maybe my crew is just cleaner than yours.

And how in the world do you make a connection between not feeding your kids over processed tasteless commercally canned food compared to homegrown nutritious food as my feeling threatened is beyond me. And before you ask, yes, me and my kids go out to my Mom & Dads and help with the garden that they still raise. (Maybe I should also add that they just had their 53rd wedding anniversery before you attack my family values.)

And just as a sideline to the post referring to the Dugger kids out-voting everyone else and their friends...I'm a 3rd generation registered Republican!!! Scared yet???

Look, I didn't log onto this site because I don't like the family. Its actually quite the opposite. Watching that whole family getting along and genuinely enjoying each others company is a blessing to watch. And in view of the horror and tragedy of those Amish kids being murdered this week, I would think YOU could learn a little tolerance for someone who doesn't think exactly the same as you. It's been reported that the community has actually contacted the widow and children of the man who killed their kids and asked them to stay in the area...I don't think you're that forgiving.

And by the way, why is an able-bodied man doing home on the computer in the middle of the day? Shouldn't you be at work, supporting your family???

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

But yes, I do one or two a day, but maybe my crew is just cleaner than yours.

My kids are 1, 3, and 5. I hope your kids do a better job of keeping themselves clean than mine do.

What bothered me about your comment is the attitude that they ought to be living their lives the way you do, or the way you tell them, in your case by gardening and do fewer loads of laundry.

You're a Republican? Awesome. Look at some of the commenters here, and see who's leaving most of the contempt for this family and their kids. I've recently had it suggested that those kids are being brainwashed.

I'm immensely tolerant of people who think differently from me. But my blog is about what I think; and it's the place where I express what I think, among other things, about what other people say. I never tell them to stop saying it.

As for that Amish thing, I don't believe that my faith requires me to forgive the unrepentant. As for them forgiving the shooter's family, perhaps I wouldn't be that forgiving. I hope I never have to find out. I confess I don't see the relevance to the topic at hand.

And by the way, why is an able-bodied man doing home on the computer in the middle of the day? Shouldn't you be at work, supporting your family???

I do work and support my family. The Extraordinary Wife is a stay-at-home mom who is beginning to homeschool our kids. This requires some substantial sacrifices on our part, but it's what's best for our kids. I was not malingering at home when I posted that comment, but what if I were? I'm a computer consultant, and I do work at any hour, almost anywhere. And it's only a moment to post a comment here.

scandi candy said...

I am a great fan of the Gilbrath family of "Cheaper by the Dozen" fame.&the original book, not the movie version) They were a marvelous family with great closeness and unity, and though most of them chose not to have such a large family as their family of origin, they all seemed to have fond memories and benefits of having been raised in the fashion their parents wanted for them. I'm endlessly fascinated by the learning, fun, and comradery they all experienced in their lives at home.

The Duggars are just as fascinating, and they are Christians, as I am, which adds another even greater facet to the equation. Many of the greatest of the ancient and modern believers had less than perfect upbringings: Moses and family wandered the desert, Noah and his watched the world destroyed, David's had many trials, and Jesus' parents had to flee for their lives, and it seems his dad died relatively young. Not the American dream, yet it seems that God takes the challenges to grow them into life lessons that are needed for leadership and maturity. All the criticisms that are being voiced seem to miss what to me seems important and vaild: God's ways aren't our ways, and his knowledge of what we need is unique to each believer, and he uses it as he sees we can grow and mature, and he is glorified.

Perhaps some of these criticizers should offer up their lives to the public and see how they fare to be studies, critized, and picked apart by others who are "guessing and reading between the lines" of what is revealed and what they imagine. Any takers?

I applaud the Duggars.
sweet licorice

Anonymous said...

First of all, my hat's off to Paul for creating this site. This is a fascinating family regardless of your personal point of view. I seriously wonder why people who have such harsh feelings towards this family is even on this site!!

The comment about the family growing their own food, rather than buying canned stuff, may have had a point both from a health point of view and as a home school lesson. What a marvelous way of teaching how God provides for us! And the referance to the "pickle addicts" was funny to me. Remember the huge gallon jars of pickles in the pantry??? Somebody definatly loves pickles.

You have to admit there are some discrepancies in the story that the family puts out, but at the sametime I wonder if we aren't all just a bit over judgemental of them because they have chosen to put themselves on national TV several times. I have noticed also the picture of Michelle as a high school cheerleader, the oldest boys video hobby (yet no TV allowed in the house) and how the family has it's own web-site yet no home computer...BUT we all have issues in our own families that wouldn't do so good under a microscope like this.

I do have a question. Do they have another one on the way yet? In the show where TLC finished off the house, there was a scene where Jim-Bob made a comment about another baby in the nursery (the cord had barely dropped off the one in the crib) and Michelle gave him a very nervous laugh. That poor womans womb. I can't help but wonder if she doesn't SECRETLY wish for menopause.

Anonymous said...

I just want to thank Paul for refering to his wife as "Extraordinary". It brought both a smile and a tear. For a wife to be cherished is often her greatest joy after Motherhood. (Okay girls, sometimes Motherhood gets old and we just need a pat on the back.) Unfortunatley, it's mostly us girls on this site; so we can't elbow our men and tell them...see, here's a guy who knows how to value his wife.

Homeschooling 3 little ones is gonna be a full time job. Paul, are you going to be passing on your language skills and military history knowledge when the time comes? My Dad is a Korean War vet, and some of my best memories are of my Dad telling stories of his experiences. We parents are teachers 24/7 whether we give out homework or not. I sincerely hope that Jim Dugger is passing on his knowledge of state politics and his experience in buying and selling real-estate to his children.

Anonymous said...

I think the Duggars are an amazing family. They live together and work together as a family should. Michelle is preparing her children for the real world very well- they each have responsibilites and rewards just as any child should.

As for the making thier home a church to save on taxes- they are so well known that if they were breaking any laws they woule have been in trouble by now. They have huge church meetings in their living room- that is why its 2000square feet.

If any one has a serious problem with this family- then maybey you should go take a look at your family. At first I was in shock at this family- but I realized I would have loved to grow up with this family. I hope my family of 5 can benifit from their advise.

Anonymous said...

I find it fascinating that when confronted by a happy successful family, people would spew forth such bile. All this doom and gloom about the planet not being able to take much more. It should be noted that in spite of our escalating population western countries have more food, better sanitation, cleaner waterways, and vastly improved health and standards of living than in centuries past. Third world countries continue to struggle, but this has always been so, and rarely is overpopulation the main cause. Here in Australia, our birth rate has dropped so dramatically that we are being paid $4000.00 by the government every time we have a baby, and our treasurer is urging us to have at least one for mum, one for dad, and one for the country. Perhaps the Duggars should move here, we have acres to spare, and they wouldn't have to put up with the insecure, hate filled rubbish that I've read from some. Whatever happened to live and let live?

Cathy said...

I enjoy watching the shows about the Duggars, and find them inspirational. I am an only child, 34yr old mother of 2 children, and my husband was the oldest of 5. Perhaps some of the biggest lessons one can garner from watching their shows is how to be happy from within...learn to occupy & entertain yourself (proven by several researchers that this one of the MAJOR causes of children turning to drugs, gangs, etc.), and be spiritually happy within oneself. I agree that they do give some conflicting stories between the website & the show. Maybe all these people criticizing about "how they do it," should watch & research closer. I personally would LOVE to be debt free and build a new home. As far as the 20 acres thing, I live in a small town. LOTS of people here have 75 acres or more, and some of them are "sod" farms, not food or dairy farms. Are they wrong for having so much land? No one seems to find it "wrong" when a celebrity or sports figure builds a 7,000 sq ft house on 20 acres. And before you comment about taxes, most of them don't pay taxes either. They're living the way they believe, in a country that allows them to do so. Maybe the rest of us should also!

Anonymous said...

Hello! My Aunt and Uncle have 10 children and live on a 150 acre farm wherein they built their own 5,000 sq ft house with their own hands. My Uncle is a dentist who provides for the family while my Aunt has home schooled all the children. They are also 100% debt free. They have a home church which meets at their house also. All the children play at the least 2 instruments and speak foreign languages. The three eldest kids are almost done with their Doctoral degrees and so on so forth down the line. God has provided for all the kids to go to college for multiple degrees. They are highly intelligent and qualify for music and scholastic sholarships due to the dilligence and hard work of their parents in educating them. These are amazing people who I am growing to respect more and more and more as I become older and am thinking about starting a family. I know how patient and dedicated the parents were and are to raise such great human beings. All the kids are very different and have different likes and dislikes, no child is alike in any family. Their parents embrace their differences and unique talents. Children are a blessing from God and as parents you have the right to choose how you want to raise them and how many you want to have. I myself am so grateful to have been raised in a Christian home and only hope to raise my kids as well as Jim Bob and Michelle and my Aunt and Uncle. God bless,,,,,,,,L.A.W.

Anonymous said...

The ones who can't handle the fact that they are not debt free like the duggars and can't follow the same guidelines (B.I.B.L.E.-Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth) are those persons who are JEALOUS. They know who they are...they are the ones who didn't get to live in a big beautiful home with a mom like that or a dad like that or siblings like that. Boo Hoo...wah wah wah...you're only making light of the Duggars is because you are Jealous Jealous Jealous you didn't have a mummy and daddy like that or brothers and sisters like that and you're jealous because you're not debt free and although you could be and everyone else in this world could be, you will not be because you'd much rather charge massive amounts of money on your credit cards instead of living within your budget and tithing. The truth is in the word my little jealous friends.....TRUTH is the BIBLE and its REVELATIONS. If you can't handle the truth, stay out of the CHURCH. Thank you very much, God Bless and lots of love and all the rest....quit being jealous...it's unattractive.

Anonymous said...

I wonder whats going to become of those kids when some decide they want to go see the "real world" (you know, college life, a diverse group of friends representative of our diverse population, backpacking through Europe, sweatpants...)

Does anyone really think these kids will be able to deal with life outside of Arkansas?

I certainly do not wish to tell someone what they can and cannot do with their own body; however I believe that having such a large family is social irresponsible.

Children need to be taught in a school by a PROFESSIONAL, LICENSED teacher. Sure, 200 years ago we schooled our children at home and apparantley that worked just fine. Thats not justification for homeschooling now, though. I mean, are you going to forego the polio vaccine as well?

Do the Duggars believe that their kids should go to college?? I just don't get it. And if they really want and are able to provide for so many children, why don't they adopt from Third World countries?

Really, they can do as they wish, but they are doing those kids and society a tremendous disservice.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Anonymous, I don't know what "real world" you live in, but I'm 44, I work a job and support a family, and my real world involves working and commuting, grocery shopping and pediatricians, and no backpacking through Europe at all. I have to college degrees, but I don't find the "real world" to be much like college at all.

I thinnk that these kids will be able to not only deal with life outside Arkansas, should they choose to travel, but will have much to contribute. They will bring the strength that is born of a strong family, the patience, compromise and negotiation & teamwork skills born of a large family, and the superior academic skills that are born of homeschooling.

That's right. In fact the idea that children need professional "licensed" teachers is a myth. There's no magic that attendance at a teaching school conveys to educate; it's just not that hard. Public schools are much more about indoctrination than education.

As to social irresponsibility, I think it's a major service to society for the Duggars to provide it so many new people ready to be productive and good citizens. These kids won't be in street gangs, they won't be on welfare, they'll be educated, they'll be entrepeneurs, employing others. Or they'll serve in the military, or any of dozens of other productive jobs. People are a resource, not a liability.

Finally, why should they adopt third world babies, if they feel called to have children of their own. For those who choose that path, great. But I never cease to be amazed at those who come here and demand that the Duggars shouldn't live their lives as they choose, but instead do something else.

Scott Roche said...

"Children need to be taught in a school by a PROFESSIONAL, LICENSED teacher."

I'm gonna back up Paul here. As someone who has completed all training to become a professional, licensed teacher in NC I can tell you that they don't give you a magic wand. If you homeschool there is a plethora of curriculum that lays everything out for you. My wife and I are about to embark on homeschooling our kids and I'm looking forward to it.

Anonymous said...

I am a mom of 2 young children, and I find Michelle to be an inspiration! I've seen all of their television specials. Those children are happy and well-adjusted. They are respectful to their parents and their siblings. I fing it amusing that everyone on this blog believes that they can dictate how Michelle and JimBob should live their lives. I thought liberals were all about tolerance and not being judgemental. That certainly doesn't seem to be the case here. They are judging people that they don't even know. JimBob provides for his family and seems to be an active, present father. Michelle is abounding with grace and patience. Their children seem to be intelligent, kind people. How many other families can we even say that much about? We need more families like this one. We need more falilies where the children are the most important priority. As for the computer controversy I could have sworn in the first tv special, 14 children and pregnant again, I saw computers in the room where the family was homeschooling.

Stever said...

I have admired the Duggers for thier faith in having all the children that God would give them. Not such an easy task in a day when this kind of thing always seems to bring a gasp of shock to people when they find out how many kids you have if you have more than three. My wife and I have 7 with # 8 on the way. We view them as blessings from God and we only have them because we beleieve it is part of God's will for us. We are to seek his kingdom and His righteousness, part of that is in having all the children that He intended and then trying to bring them up in his ways and teach them His principles.

I have no idea how I am going to be able to provide for them, but as time goes on I am seeing the Lord's provision. He makes the provisions available just at the time we need them.

I think it is great how the Lord has multiplied the provisions for the Dugger family. God's desire is for a large number of people to give Him the Glory that is due Him now and when His kingdom will be established. What a better way to prepare for that than for godly parents to raise up a godly generation that will be mighty upon the earth?

Anonymous said...

What a great family! This San Franciscan thinks they are raising self-reliant, responsible, well-disciplined (and self-disciplined) children with great values. Looking on the Discovery Health site, I was delighted to see the wide range of occupations in which the children are expressing interest...everthing from fireman, policeman, midwife, attorney, contractor, beautician, etc. From personal experience, I know that homeschooled kids are some of the most confident and socially-adept children in these times. Instead of being socially gridlocked in public schools exposed to limited age ranges, bullies, and inappropriate values, homeschoolers are often exposed to people of all ages and occupations as part of their learning and they in turn learn to interact with skill. Have to laugh also at folks worried about college, too, as if many of us didn't put ourselves through college without parental help! Homeschoolers are notorious for getting scholarships because of academic, musical, etc., skills.

[Oh, and I already know about the intolerance of those not holding conservative views. Visit SF, the city of "love only for those holding liberal values" and woe unto you who try to express more conservative views in public. Intolerance personified!]

So, you go, Duggars!! Show 'em how it's done!

Anonymous said...

The Duggars are also increasing the likelihood that their children will have heterosexual relationships, according to a recently released Danish study, published in the October 2006 issue of Archives of Sexual Behavior. See http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/1/afa/22007b.asp for article entitled "Environment a Determinant in Marriage-Gender Decision, Says Study Danish Study Challenges Popular View of Sexual Orientation."

The study, published in the October 2006 issue of Archives of Sexual Behavior, authored by Danish epidemiologist Morten Frisch and statistician Anders Hviid, reported the analysis of data from two-million men and women. The research suggests a link between environmental factors such as geographic birthplace and family relationships and the probability of marrying a same-sex or opposite-sex partner. The massive study also finds that the number of brothers and sisters increases the probability of marrying heterosexually.

Anonymous said...

Like someone who posted back in November, I am also living in Australia. The government here is strongly family-oriented at the moment, and encourage people to have children.

Thank you, Paul, for your comments on the Duggar family, and for keeping your cool so well in the face of so many negative responses!

I am a teacher and past University lecturer with 3 degrees and a diploma in music. As a teacher of many years, I have had the opportunity to see at first hand what is taught in the classroom and what homeschoolers teach as well.

I have done a lot of research into homeschooling, and for the most part, have found that homeschooled children are better educated and more well-rounded than children in the public school system. Many of them enter university and earn more than one degree, and go on to live very successful and fulfilled lives as adults.

Most classrooms in developed countries have between 20 and 35 students per classroom. The typical "classroom" is an artifical environment with children all the same age being taught by a single teacher. This teacher is not related to the childen, has a rudimentary understanding of education but usually does not get to know the individual child holistically.

I removed one of my sons from a rather large elementary school after his first year because the teacher obviously thought of him and the others in the class as a "number". She barely knew his name and didn't know that he could already read when he began first grade. I am not blaming the teacher, but this is very common in our educational systems.

The Duggars are one of quite a few families of large size. They are not alone. There may be some larger families who are not as well-organized or well-run, but the Duggars have been in the public eye for some time and have proven to be exactly what they seem to be: a large family who puts God first in their lives. These are parents who REALLY love their children and who have created a wonderful, wholesome climate in which to raise them. They run their homeschooling program much as a small private school would run, with the older children as teacher's aides. This is excellent training for the older ones in many, many ways which there is not time or space to explain here.

The Bible tells us we are not to live in fear. It tells us over and over again to trust the Lord for all things. The Duggars are doing this, and they are successful.

It made me feel sick to read some of the negative responses here, and I felt sad and a bit angry to read the SF article as well. American people who criticize the Duggars need to realize that the Duggars live in a "free" country, just the same as they do. The number of children they have is no one's business but their own. Because they have been publicized, people are feeling as if they have the right to throw slings and arrows at the Duggars. This is just WRONG.

God bless the Duggars.

Sarah said...

You know yes some people decide to have a large family of their own and maybe they haven't adopted a child...but if you have no children or few children and think the Duggars don't have the right to choose their family size, think about how many children you have adopted lately before deciding they are horrible for having their own. Who are we to decide how many kids someone else should have? There is nothing wrong with a small or large family but that is up to each us and the Lord not someone else. As far as using more resources...How often do you grow your own food? People with bigger families often buy lass prepackaged single use ect food. Buying in bulk can reduce packaging ALOT! We have a decent size family and every trash day we have a smaller amt. of trash at the curb than our neighbors with less kids. Big families often eat out less too which saves on packaging too. I don't know if they do but we use cloth diapers too so my 5-6 kids will make less diaper trash than a family with just one child. Things are not always the way you may think ;)

Anonymous said...

The reason for the negative comments can be summed up in Matthew 24:12. The Duggars are an awesome family. Only a true handmaiden from the Lord could do what Michelle does. She and her husband are to be highly praised for the wonderful job they are doing raising their lovely family.May the Lord Bless them and keep them may His face continue to shine upon them all of their days and the days of their children. Thank-You Jesus for a family that is willing to lead their family the right way and love them with the love that only Jesus gives!

Anonymous said...

My question is to Paul,

I found this site by "googleing" The Dugger family. I realize this is your personal blog, inspired by your personal thoughts, feelings, and ideas. Praise the Lord for living in a country where such freedom exists.

But, I have noticed that while you defend the beliefs of your family and those of the Dugger's, you seem to have a problem with bloggers who express an idea that differs from yours. As I said, this is your site, and you absolutely have the right so say anything you please. However, while you preach tolerance and acceptance of the Duggers and all they represent, I see very little tolerance coming from you! Why should I, or anyone else wish to emmulate someone so narrow minded? So quick to judge others, yet become personally offended by anyone who disagrees with him. My copy of Websters calls that bigotry: "an intolerant person".

While I am personally fascinated by this family on practically every level (hence my search on the internet) I can't help but wonder what Jim-Bob and Michelle themselves or any of the children would think if they knew how quickly you come to their defense at the expense of degrading somebody who disagrees with you.

Based on your previous entries, I highly doubt that you will respond, and if you do it will be with the same condesending attitude that you find so offensive in anybody who disagrees with you.

I am truly disappointed. I had hoped to find a site where openminded fans of this famiy were coming togather to ask questions and share stories. And for the most part I have. What's sad is you "speaking out both sides of your mouth" as my grandmother (who was a one room school teacher and was totally immersed in the lives of all of her students) would say. You preach tolerance and acceptance, but you are totally without any of your own. I will pray for you. Pray that you will learn from the family that you are so in awe of, learn a little brotherly love.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Don't be silly; I am immensely tolerant. I'm even tolerant of you using my own blog to call me a bigot. That doesn't mean that I let it go unanswered, or un-remarked-upon, or uncriticized.

But no one has ever suffered any consequences for disagreeing with me; no one's been assaulted, or fired from their job, or evicted from their home, or arrested, for the crime of disagreeing with me. I'm very tolerant. People are certainly free to disagree with me. I've never done anything more than argue to prevent disagreement with me. I do not seek people out and opress them for disagreeing with me. Many people who disagree with every value and disagreement I hold will never hear of me, because I tolerate them quietly.

But if they want to post their silly, wrong-headed notions in the comments sections of my blog, I get to reply. If they make the news and I hear of it, I may just write a post about them.

Now, if you want to make a case that I have been discourteous at times, you may have a point. But I'm certainly not intolerant.

As for what the Duggars would think of me, I have no doubt they'd like me if they met me, and that they'd appreciate my efforts to defend them from their critics who post here. But it doesn't really matter, because my blog is for my pleasure and edification, not theirs or anyone else's. I've never communicated with them, and I don't speak for them. They have their own website. And two TV specials on cable. So they can get their views out if that's important to them.

But you are also very mistaken on another point. I do not "preach tolerance and acceptance". I occasionally call upon those who do so to try practicing it once in a while. But while I do practice tolerance and acceptance of many things, I do not preach it. Partially that's because some wrong-headed person like you will come along and confuse disputation with intolerance.

I was watching Boston Legal last night (one of my guilty pleasures), and the episode ended with the Alan Shore character complaining about the fact that people aren't allowed to criticize the American government anymore. The Dixie Chicks have made a movie about not being allowed to criticize the President.

Barely a week goes by that some liberal somewhere doesn't take to some national forum somewhere and complain about the loss of his right to free speech; such complaints are invariably reported widely in the national press.

For a group that considers itself inherently more intelligent than its political opponents, liberals have an appaling inability to recognize the irony of going on national TV to complain about not being allowed to speak. (To paraphrase Tom Lehrer, I believe that if a person thinks that he has lost the right to free speech, then the very least he can do is to shut up.)

And then you come to my blog and tell me not to dispute the people who come here to disagree with me?

No.

This is my forum; this little insignificant place on the internet is where my voice is heard. Neither you nor anyone else will silence me.

Anonymous said...

Interesting.... I met a couple this past Thanksgiving as I was volunteering at a "Feed the homeless" meal. The couple came with four of their eleven children. Everyone bent over backwards to greet and offer help. They took quite a load of food home..and they DO have a home, section 8 I was told. Some were even offering cash. This African-American couple endured no harsh words for the number of children they brought into this world and are not supporting...so why come down so hard on this White family if they are self-supporting????

Anonymous said...

Hi,
I like your blog. I've enjoyed reading the comments. I wanted to know if you have heard that the Duggars are expecting a new baby blessing this summer of 2007? I am excited for them, because as a mom of 10 who would love to have number 11 in 2007, I know that I never get tired of having a new baby. They are always a welcomed surprise!
Angie

Anonymous said...

Someone tell these people to stop!!! I find it revolting that these people are still having children. What ever happened to population control???? This is what happens when you allow teenagers to marry and reproduce. All of this reproduction makes them look like a couple of horny rabbits, who by the way, are also sick and twisted.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

What ever happened to population control????

Population control? Whatever happened to freedom? These people are raising their own children to be upstanding and productive members of society. I'd be delighted to have them as neighbors.

If you think they're revolting, why watch a show about them, and more, why go searching the web for more about them?

How many children should people be restricted to having? Or, which people should be subject to population control? What jurisdiction should impose this control?

Your remarks are, I hate to point out, fundamentally un-American. What could possibly be the source of your revulsion?

Anonymous said...

The Duggars seemed like a nice family. Both sets of my grandparents had twelve childen. I loved every one of my aunts and uncles and many cousins. I was wondering why the Duggars had a pool table?

PB said...

Keep up these good rebuttles Paul, you are better at it than I am! Duggers, you have as many children as you wish, my respect goes to you and your ability to manage your house and household budget. If everyone could live debt free and with such organization immagine how the world would be!

Anonymous said...

LOL at the poster who said "this is what happens when teenagers marry and reproduce". I am wondering what he thinks happens to the teenagers who reproduce but aren't married?

Rabbits are sick and twisted? That's not very nice. Personally, I like being compared to a bunny, the energizer, or any other really! I would rather be a bunny than a snake in the grass.

As for population, do you know what happens to a country who doesn't keep their population at atleast 2.1 children per family? They will end up like Germany and other European countries who are begging their people to have babies, and even opening their doors to foreigners. Did you know that muslim based countries have an average of 6 children per family? Yes, the Duggars and others like them are doing you a service.
Angie
Mom of 10

Anonymous said...

Paul,
I do not understand the contempt for this family. Truth be told, I am a nonbeliever but my husband is a devout Christian and is raising our three sons as Christians as well. I so admire the devout belief of this family and their deep love for one another. They are to be admired. They are organized, self supporting and, dare we say , darn good business people! I love watching their stories on TLC. I feel like I become a better mother each time I watch their episodes.
Proud mother of three!

Kimberly Swygert said...

Well, I'm a non-Christian non-mother, and I think the Duggars kick butt. I especially enjoy the hysteria they generate in "liberals" who are happy to see women make the choice of abortion but terrified to see women choose to rear kids to have - gulp! - conservative values! Obviously, some choices are more valid than others, in the liberal mindset.

As for how they're rearing their kids, let's just say I think their kids will grow up to be far more productive in society that some of the spoiled, ill-disciplined only children that I've seen in my family. No child was ever hurt by learning too early to be generous, sharing, and considerate of others.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

You said it, Kimberly!

Anonymous said...

What I find disturbing about this family, is how many conservatives and liberals have decided that the Duggar's lives and choices should be their staging area for sniping at one another. I've read several threads about this family tonight due to a massive case of insomnia, and so many of them have collpased into swill of massive generalizations, and polarizations. I stopped counting the number of times I've read "all children that..." or "noone raised like this..." or "if everyone just did this..." Probably about as many times as I've read either end of the political dichotomy using this poor famiuly to attack one another.

Ridiculous. Growing up I had friends whose families ranged in size from twelve to fifteen children. No one seemed to think they were all doomed, nor was my family looked down upon because of our, relatively, small size of four kids.

I don't agree, personally, with all the choices the family has made. But then, I'm quite sure that there are many people who don't agree with all the choices I have made either. No one is being hurt here. So their choices aren't my business. Nor would mine, be theirs.

Seriously people, stop with the judging. As a democrat, I believe in reporductive rights for women-all women. Even the ones whose choices I personally would never consider making.

Anonymous said...

I have been writing and commenting about this family for nearly 2 years. It sickens me that they have TV shows and people (mostly right-wing fundamentalists) who put them on a pedestal as role models. The Duggar's have mush for brains if they believe they are honoring God by spewing out a kid every year. Their theory that the "pill" causes abortions is about as off the wall remark as I've ever heard. Either they are getting that info from a quack doctor (or a psychotic preacher) or they are more backward than I first thought. Seems they are willing to "trust God" for how many kids they'll have but unwilling to "trust God" for Jim Bob's sex drive. They can't have it both ways...God isn't having sex with Michelle; Jim Bob is if anyone can't see that.

To have to have a "buddy system" where the older kids essentially raise the younger ones tells me they should have stopped about 10 kids ago. How fair is it to make the older kids do the jobs of an adult? I think it's fine to have kids help in the home, but to assign jobs like they do is more like a military camp than a family household. If some of those kids don't run away from home, I'll truly be surprised.

I also have big problems with home schooling. The Duggar's are big supporters of a religious zealot named Bill Gothard. Go to his website www.billgothard.com and see what a lunatic this guy is. That is where they get their homeschooling materials (like Michelle would have time to do that even if she was a certified teacher which she is not). I think Gothard has brainwashed the Duggar's into believing his distorted views about scripture, child-rearing and marriage. He advocates using no birth control as does another organization the Duggar's are a part of "Quiverfull Movement". Check out their web sites and tell me that these people are not nuts. Just about every photo of a family on Gothard's site shows 6 or more kids. I think these organizations are promoting irresponsibility in the name of God and I cannot think of anything more selfish than spewing out kid after kid simply because you can and then having your older children raise them.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Two years?! Get a life! It's time for another topic! What do you propose be "done" about them, and others like them?

I've heard of the "Quiverfull Movement", and I don't believe they're nuts. Some are called to have large families and some are blessed with large families.

And, as the Catholic Church has always taught, artificial contraception is a grave sin.

As for your "big problems" with homeschooling, I can only assume that you believe that children should be indoctrinated by the state in what the state wants them to know. Well, too bad, but some of us don't want to entrust our children to the state; we believe that they're too important to be left to the same people who brought us the IRS, the Post Office, and the CIA.

Anonymous said...

Wow lots of comments! I have to say that I love the family and think they are setting a great example for all of us. The love and joy they have in their live is amazing. I see nothing wrong with the family having as many kids as they want. There is also nothing wrong with the family stocking up on items in their pantry. I think its good planning on their parts.

As for the clothing topic, I think its great that the girls are dressing modestly! Way to go for them! There are way too many young girls now a days showing off way too much.

All in all I think this family does a great job. My hat is off to them.

Anonymous said...

To anonymous about the pill being an abortifacient, they didn't get that info from a quack doctor, but the insert that comes with the pill. Please read the fine print carefully.

God is the creator of life, so JimBob could have sex with Michelle every night and nothing would happen. Look at all the infertile couples. If it was that easy, infertility dr's would be out of business.

I find it funny that you are commenting about the "unfairness" of the kids having buddies, but I've never heard the kids complain. The kids aren't raising their buddy, the buddy system is for safety, and to keep things running smoothly. When you only have two hands, and 16 kids, it is nice to have the older kids hold a buddy's hand to cross the street. If they didn't and their kids were running crazy, you would complain that they should have paired them up.

Your support statement for " these people are nuts" is " look they have 6 or more kids each". How does having a large family make one nuts? Can't a person love kids? How does that make them irresponsible? They provide for them, they love them, they cloth them, what more do you want? I think you should move your two year old soap box over to a more worthy cause, like how about drug addicts who won't straighten up but have three kids and live on welfare?

Anonymous said...

I think that the Duggars are great people. Sure, they are much different than any family I have ever known, but that is what makes them special. If they don't dress the way that is "cool"...so what? If they have a buddy system-that's great! I'd like to see any one parent feed, clothe, pay attention to, cuddle, keep safe, etc. sixteen children all by themselves. What loving, responsible older sibling wouldn't help out?

I am very much impressed with the strong family that the Duggars have reared. Families in our nation are falling apart at the seams! It's refreshing to see one that truly loves each other and takes care of each other. Why do people have problems with that?

Anonymous said...

I am not a Christian. I am a public schoolteacher. I have two daughters and that's enough for me.

That said ... I greatly admire the Duggars for living their life the way they see fit. They have figured out a way to provide for their children that doesn't involve my tax money. They are raising their children with a solid value system that will benefit them as adults.

Homeschooling is a wonderful idea. Yes, it's true that there are parents out there who don't know enough of the basics to be homeschooling their children. There are also poorly-trained teachers who are getting paid to do the same thing.

There are a few things about the Duggars that concern me. I worry about the gender-specific roles expected of the kids. I worry about whether or not their education is really going to be as well-rounded as they'll need to function in the world. I worry about Michelle's health after so many pregnancies.

But again, not my family, not my choice. They seem to have a well-oiled machine, and more power to 'em. And, as has been echoed in some of the previous comments, I bet we'd find all sorts of inconsistencies and problems in all of our lives if we lived under the media microscope that's focused on the Duggars.

And, as an aside ... I wonder how many children the Duggar kids will choose to have once they're all grown and married. Dealing with a houseful of younger siblings, spit-up, diapers, sleepless nights, and toddler tantrums is probably the best birth control out there!

Anonymous said...

Wow! So much diversity in comments! Everything from admiration to down right hostility.

I caught an old re-run of one of the first show the other night (the one where they were still in the original house) and I noticed something that, more than anything else I believe, reflects the lack of respect and lack of care that anyone in that house, from Jim-Bob on down to the youngest of the kids, have for Michelle.

That's the scene where she is pregnant out to here, up in the middle of the night, to put one more load of laundry in the dryer. You can spout gender specific chores all you want, but if you don't "Honor your Father and Mother" or "Love, honor and cherish" your wife; then what's the point?

My parents were money poor while raising my and my 2 brothers on a farm in Minnesota 25 years ago. My dad was one of the most "woman's place is in the home" kind of guys you could ever meet, but when my mom was pregnant with my youngest brother at 39, and I was only 8, she was a queen. What he couldn't do for her, he had a cousin of mine come help with. She was cherished and honored.

While there was so much focus on the chores being divided up between all the kids, where's Jim Bob's part in "raising up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it?" What is the example he is setting for all his sons for how to honor their wives? What is the example he is setting for the girls that they can expect from their husbands? I may be way off base here, much of the focus of the TV show was on all those kids and Michelle. But it seems to me that it bares some consideration that the reason Jim-Bob wasn't focused on much, other then the construction of the house, (which by his own admission was in his spare time) is that he really doesn't do much past conception. Just exactly what does he do with his family? They don't show him grabbing a brief case and dashing out the door to an office, but they don't show any type of home office either. He's not in congress anymore. You would think he could get out of bed and let his pregnent yet again wife get some well deserved sleep. Guessing by Michelle's personality, she would probably say something like "it's okay honey, I can do it". That's where he insists she go back to sleep and take care of her!

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

I may be way off base here, much of the focus of the TV show was on all those kids and Michelle. But it seems to me that it bares some consideration that the reason Jim-Bob wasn't focused on much, other then the construction of the house, (which by his own admission was in his spare time) is that he really doesn't do much past conception.

In fact, I think you are off-base here. Jim Bob has his own real estate business, and also manages the families investments. It takes a lot of scratch to support such a family, especially without any debt, and that's where Jim Bob's time is spent.

Its not very telegenic, but there you are.

- Paul

Anonymous said...

The question still remains...what possible excuse could he have for not letting Michelle get some rest and throwing in a load of towels?

You have lovingly refered to your spouse as your "Exceptional Wife" (my applologies if I misquoted you). You run a home business and so does she (she runs the house part...agreed?) If she were carrying your 15th or 16th child, are you going to insist on her getting out of bed because it's not your job to help with the laundry? That's all I'm asking. Is Jim Bob so busy "scratching" that he's to good to help with the wash? And even if he is, what excuse do those kids have? They don't have a bus to catch in the morning! It just seems to me that Michelle really got the short end of this deal!

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

I don't run a home-based business, I commute into the city to my job at my employer's office most days. (On occasion I do work at home or go to a client's office.)

The Extraordinary Wife also doesn't run a home-based business; she runs our home.

She suggests that pregnant women are often awake in the night anyway and that's probably why Michelle took the opportunity to throw in another load of laundry.

Anonymous said...

Re-read my statement Paul, and you will see that that's exactly what I said...she runs your home!!!

You also evaded my question; what about those kids. and do you help with the laundry?

(I'm really not trying to make you mad...I'm just basically nosy...smile)

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

My home is not a business. My wife maintains our home, but it brings in no revenue.

And no, I don't help with the laundry, but I do help with the kids.

machelle said...

Children need to be taught in a school by a PROFESSIONAL, LICENSED teacher. Sure, 200 years ago we schooled our children at home and apparantley that worked just fine. Thats not justification for homeschooling now, though. I mean, are you going to forego the polio vaccine as well?



my daughter 15 mo old has only had one set of vaccinations due to reaction and my studies on them and i am anti vac in her case so i guess no she wont have the poliio vac either i was homeschooled i have my diploma and going to attent culinary art school shortly i admire the duggers i do thhink they have a fairly large family but each there own i guess

Anonymous said...

Well, Paul you have quite a Blog going here. I LOVE the Duggar family. I think it is utterly amazing how efficiently Michelle runs that household. Amazingly so that her husband doesn't have to check on her. Amazingly so that it will run itself if she is in the hospital birthing another wonderful blessing. I wish I was as organized as her. And they do all this debt free, I can only dream of such a thing.

I love the idea of the buddy system. There is so much love in their home, for one sibling to care for another. As we should care for our brothers and sisters in Christ. That is how the world should be. The spoiled only child will never have what these kids have.

I am a Christian woman married to a Christian man. I do believe that the wife is to answer to her own husband (Titus 2). There ARE gender spacific roles. I have never seen a man give birth or nurse a baby naturally, have you? I like my gender specific role, it is easier to know what I am supposed to do instead of being all mixed up. Plus my job has great perks.;-)

And that the Woman be a keeper at home (Proverbs 31) I have to disagree with you just a little bit here Paul, but bear with me. For women our home is our home "business". We may not make money from home (well some of us do), but us women being home to make sure our men can commute to the city and make the money "saves" money. You don't have to pay an outsider to do what we do. We may not make money being housewives, but we definitely save the household a ton of money every month. A woman's home IS her business.

Price it out. I priced it out 5 years ago and every 2 weeks just doing the household chores, saves us $1800. Can you afford to pay someone that much every 2 weeks to run your home? And with inflation I'm sure it is more toward $2100.

When we have children who are old enough to help, we should delegate chores to them; ie, picking up their own rooms, putting their own dirty dishes in the sink, feeding their pets, picking up their dirty laundry off the floor, and so on. This teaches responsibility, self esteem, goal setting, productiveness, how to be a team player, how to follow directions, and other really nice qualities. How many women this day and age don't know how to cook because they never helped in the kitchen?

I also believe in a "Quiverful" family. It has been statistically proven that the 5 billion people in the world's population can live comfortabling in the massive state of Texas. So to you population control people, your case doesn't hold water.

It is also scientifically proven that for each child a woman bears, she lowers her risk of Ovarian, cervical, and breast cancers by 6%. Also the woman who nurses those babies for a year, further reduces her chances of breast cancer by another 3%. So as the saying goes, "If you don't use it, you lose it" really does apply. Michelle Duggar might live a lot longer than a lot of us women, and she will NEVER have reproductive cancers.

I saw a lot of people quote Psalm 127. I once was asked "How do you know you have a full quiver?" We humans don't know. The quiver mentioned is a warrior's quiver. A warrior would have more arrows than a hunter. But if you look it up: A warrior's quiver holds an "undetermined" number of arrows, but it holds the number of arrows the warrior's Master has given him. So some of us have 1 child, 3 children, and some of us have 10 or 29 children. If God didn't want the Duggars to have 16-17-20-32 children, He would not have given them. It is as simple as that.

Others of you have commented on education. I homeschool my children. Our schooling consists of piano lessons, history, science, reading lessons (for the younger children), Algebra lessons, bible study, horticulture, animal husbandry, cooking lessons, charm, and all sorts of things that a lot of public school children will never know. My children also have learned how to respect their parents, they are well mannered and well behaved, because they have parent time. My children are doing better schoolwise than most other children of the same age are in public school.

And am I licensed by the state, um no. It is just a piece of paper. I can print one out for you if you like. Do you want flowers on the border?

It is statistically proven that homeschooled children test higher, learn more, are better rounded, are more emotionally stable, and succeed further in life than the publicly schooled child.

When secular minded people attack people like the Duggar family, you attack the people who also live the way they do. I know that it is human nature to destroy the things you do not understand. Maybe it is a good thing you're limiting your family size. In 30 years the world will be a better place to live.

The Duggars aren't any different than you or me. They may have diffent views and beliefs than you do, but that doesn't mean they are lesser people because you don't agree with their views.

In fact they may be better people. Can you say you have what they do? They are debt free, are you? They believe wholey and have given every aspect of control of their lives over to God, do you? They get us every morning and actually enjoy being with all their children all day everyday, do you?

Before you pass judgement onto others take a step back and look at yourself.

Anonymous said...

Wow, what a site! First of all; to Paul. I love your stick-to-itness.

I was raised Lutheran by a registered nurse-turned stay at home Mom, and a retired Air-Force Staff Seargent Dad. Point being...my parents are educated, intellectual people. But some of my worst school age memories are of either of my parents "helping" me with my homework, especially math. They knew less about it then I did! There are some awesome home school ciriculmn available out there. For as long as she has been teaching those kids, I'm sure she has lesson plans that would make my head spin. Also, since home schooling has become so much more prevelent, all 50 states have implemented equivalency tests that all 18 year old home school kids have to take and pass. We may not agree with the format or the originator (Bill whats-his-name, who is, well, a bit of a radical)but the bottom line is that the state of Arkansas will still have the final word on whether or not those kids have received a comparable education to public school kids and my money is on the Dugger kids to get top scores.

To the bloggers who wonder about the kids having the freedom to express their own ideas & feelings. One of the most frustrating things I see every time I go to the grocery store, the bank, or a restaurant is every bodies kid "expressing themselves" to the point where I just want to go home. No one teaches their kids any self control. I would have never even thought about acting out in public the way 95% of kids do today. BUT when we were home (or in these kids case; when the cameras leave) we expressed ourselves to our hearts content as long as it was respectfull. People keep waiting for these kids to cry or argue with their parents, or fight over toys and it's not going to happen on camera because they were raised better than that! But who are we to guess what happens when it's just the family?

I remember the TLC show where the family was moving and Michelle's sister was there with her family. She had short hair and was wearing pants. I bring this up to say this; the kids are exposed to people other than immedate family. My Dad's kid sister was the radical one in our family. She was her class Salutitorian, joined the peace corp, went to Africa, never got married or had kids, went to truck driving school, and now is blind from Macular Degeneration but LIVES ALONE. You better believe I have learned from her! Her mistakes and her triumphs. The Dugger kids aren't on the Moon. They meet people every day at the store, on family trips, and family get togethers. All kinds of people to teach them about getting along in society. We should all be so lucky.

Anonymous said...

Two words: child labor. I caught part of the show on TLC and watched one of their little 3 or 4 year olds using a freaking nail gun. What parent in their right mind puts their kids in that kind of danger? Fucked up. I don't care what religion or what kind of birth control you do or don't believe in - in today's society we don't have kids to build our damn houses for us, because you can't afford to pay someone else to (after footing the bill for feeding, clothing, caring for 16 kids) That's not their fault! Give them a break - they deserve childhoods!

Anonymous said...

if you had watched the whole show you would have known that the child using the drill not a nail gun had to be over the age of eight not 3 or 4. all of the children over eight were given one with there name on them to use or not.

Anonymous said...

oh well how cute and organized that is. "line up kids, if you are over 8 or 9 we're handing out your DRILLS now, with your names on them, if you don't have one with YOUR name in, don't use it or you might get hurt". that makes it totally safe and justifies the whole child labor thing. where do you people come from???

Anonymous said...

Let's think about it for a minute. If you were taking your 9yo to home depot for an opportunity to build a bird house, then you would see nothing wrong with them using a nail gun. Here is an opportunity for a child to REALLY build something. Feeling important,and needed in your family builds self esteem. Knowing that you helped build a HOUSE with your whole family creates team work. Also, seeing the whole process of house building is a education in itself. IMO, this is a great childhood, so much better than the norm.

Anonymous said...

edited to add, Not nail-gun, I meant drill :)

Anonymous said...

your example is that of a one on one activity with ONE child and parent, where the parent could easily supervise and assist. what you make me wonder is if any one of those children has ever done anything on an individual basis like that with their father or mother...some "one on one" time with doing an activity like building a birdhouse. my guess would be no, except for maybe the 2 or 3 oldest. but what about the remaining 13 or 14? i have a some extended family who are catholic and just had their 7th child, they also see no end to their reproduction. one day at the park all 7 children are playing on the playground - and the 5 year old fell off of a swing and hurt her knee. It was interesting to watch, because she went right to her mother crying, however her oldest 12 year old brother was immediately at her side taking care of her knee, while the mother just hugged her and continued her conversation with my aunt. this was sweet of the oldest, however, he did not get up to play the rest of the afternoon because he felt responsible for not supervising the others more closely. he lives day to day supervising and parenting the other children. i can only imagine how this situation is magnified many more times with the duggers - none of the kids get to stay children themselves longer than 10 or 11 years. this is very sad to me, and it does not boast of a healthy family at all.

Anonymous said...

I am surprised that you are making such an assumption over witnessing one incident. Can't you see that maybe this was not an everyday occurence, because it was a day when the mother had company? The injured child ran to the mother, not the sibling, and that shows who the child depends on. Also, having children who care about each other is always a benefit to a family. I don't think that tending to a booboo takes away a child's whole childhood. Would it be better to let a child be self-centered which is the most common way to raise children now? Which will grow up to be better adults? In a large family, with 7 children, there are 81 relationships going on (9 people times 9 people), so it is obviously going to be more fulfilling and fun than a smaller family IMO.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

I think some people have lost track of the basic point of this post.

This is comment #91 under this post.

The initial post was intended to be a defense of the Duggars against the appalling and vitriolic hatred exhibited against them on the occasion of, and solely because of, the birth of their sixteenth child, which was unleashed not only in the blogosphere but even in the print media.

Large families, the Duggars and others like them, and even "smaller" large families, say only 4-6 children, stand as a rebuke to, and a living alternative to, our modern societal ethic of selfishness.

At the heart of the "ideal" of the 2.3 child family is the selfishness of the parents, and the determination to pass this selfishness on to the next generation.

And those who are most vitriolic, I've noticed, in their evident hatred of the Duggars, really seem to recognize this rebuke, and resent it, and want to defend the "virtue" of selfishness.

Too, I've noticed other commenters who seem to want to criticize the Duggars for various more trivial matters, such as the Catholic commenter on one of the other Duggar posts (linked below) who touted his advanced education in critiquing their homeschool cirriculum. You know what? I'm not their spokesman, I don't know them. I don't have time to defend every detail of their lives; I don't know if the kids are getting as much math as they ought to. It's not my call, or anyone else's.

But there's an unmentioned issue at the heart of the Duggar family discussions, which I am finally going to name:

Contraception.

Is it permissible or tolerable for a married couple -- who are ready, willing and able to raise their own children -- to simply keep having children, and never attempt to contracept, or even space the births?

A cursory perusal of the comments on this blog alone will show that many people, it seems, would like nothing more than to make contraception not only legal, but mandatory.

Because, of course, the great defense of contraception is simply that everyone does it.

With our society's growing awareness of the issues related to abortion, many people are increasingly coming to realize that contraception leads directy to abortion -- and often is abortion. (The Supreme Court decision that enshrined the right to artificial contraception, Griswold v. Connecticut, was followed in less than a decade by Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton.

And if it's not true that "everyone does it", then what defense can be found for a practice that leads to -- and often is -- abortion?

Therefore, to many, it must not be tolerable for the Duggars or others like them not to contracept. When this happens, as can be readily seen here, any stick will be good enough to beat them with.

Dresses on the girls, drills, "individuality", the cost of a college education, this silly idea that time with parents is worthless if there's a sibling about, and the all-time favorite, homeschooling, all of these become valid grounds on which to base criticism. They're all red herrings.

What it's really about is that Michelle needs to be on Plan B, or at least Seasonale.

Otherwise, her mere existence asserts the intolerable idea that some people can be happy while not contracepting.

Anonymous said...

Using no birth control while giving God the blame or the credit for any births is an immature and irresponsible belief system. The Duggar's are shortchanging their older kids with each new baby they add to the bunch. Giving them TV specials and singing their praises is insulting to those (Christian or not) who have a brain and actually use it.
Jim Bob isn't willing to relinquish his sex drive but they are giving Michelle's womb to him. Yeah, makes a lot of sense - NOT.

The Duggar's are pathetic, but I think the posters who think they are so great are even worse.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Only stupid people have large families. Only stupid people are thankful to God for their children. Older siblings don't love and treasure their younger siblings, but rather are cheated by them.

This is the same pro-abortion mindset that would make mortal enemies of mothers and their babies, and now also wishes to sow jealousy and discord between loving siblings.


Another judgmental, anti-life, arrogant child of the age. Thanks for dropping by to share your contemptuous and superior attitude.

Anonymous said...

For the record, I'm a 46 year old who believes that these people are making a spectacle of their family by having these specials on TV and continuing to breed like wild animals. No, wait, they are WORSE than wild animals. Animals actually only have certain times of their life for breeding. The Duggar's see no logic in curtailing their breeding or their lust. Wouldn't want to give THAT over to God, now would we?

So, yes, many of us clear-thinking people believe they are misusing their older kids by heaping so much adult responsibility on to their shoulders.

Once again, if they just "love kids" so much, then ADOPT some kids who might NEED A HOME and quit spewing out more and more of their own.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
The ones who can't handle the fact that they are not debt free like the duggars and can't follow the same guidelines (B.I.B.L.E.-Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth) are those persons who are JEALOUS. They know who they are...they are the ones who didn't get to live in a big beautiful home with a mom like that or a dad like that or siblings like that. Boo Hoo...wah wah wah...you're only making light of the Duggars is because you are Jealous Jealous Jealous you didn't have a mummy and daddy like that or brothers and sisters like that and you're jealous because you're not debt free and although you could be and everyone else in this world could be, you will not be because you'd much rather charge massive amounts of money on your credit cards instead of living within your budget and tithing. The truth is in the word my little jealous friends.....TRUTH is the BIBLE and its REVELATIONS. If you can't handle the truth, stay out of the CHURCH. Thank you very much, God Bless and lots of love and all the rest....quit being jealous...it's unattractive.



The sad thing about the post above is that God teaches the truth through LOVE, not through "staying out of the church", and spewing hatred toward those with a lack of understanding...not everyone who misunderstands criticizes. Also, why is it being stated that those with differing opinions are automatically "liberals"? Conservatives may also have concerns and criticisms regarding the Duggar lifestyle.

I have watched the Duggars, and though it is not my lifestyle choice, I applaud their efforts working as a family and as a team. The childrens bond with each other is something that many families can only dream to have.

The one thing that makes me think, is what if they weren't doing this in the name of God? On the flip side, what if a family chose to do something else that most people do not believe in, yet they did it in the name of God and their religious beliefs? Would we still be standing up for them so strongly? Would we still be fielding criticisms and praise? Do we praise the family that routinely protests at funerals for troups? It's a sad, yet realistic thing to think about.

Paul thank you for creating this forum.

Anonymous said...

Jealousy is not what comes to mind when many of us criticize the Duggar's. In fact, that lifestyle would be the LAST way I'd want to live as a child or as a parent. I think the "Bible thumpers" on the board are unrealistic about life and about what is fair or not fair to kids. Kids want, more than anything, their parents' time which is something Jim Bob & Michelle cannot possibly give to each child because they keep having more and more children. How is it that that is fair to those older kids having to raise those younger babies? Jealousy, I'm afraid would not be in my vocabulary when I describe how I feel about the Duggar's. Pathetic, selfish and self-righteous describes them much better.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Once again in comment #96 (Anonymous 4/11/2007), we see the standard assumptions of those who decry the Duggars' lifestyle:

1. Children who say they are happy, aren't.
2. Children whose time with their parents is in the company of a brother or sister may as well not be spending time with their parents.
3. Love is finite, a zero-sum game; the more people you love, the less you can love them.
4. Older siblings do not like to, and do not naturally, lend a hand to help with their younger siblings.

To quote Jamie Lee Curtis in A Fish Called Wanda, "Those are all mistakes. I looked them up."

Anonymous said...

All of the people on here talking about out of control population and kids going to bed hungry around the world etc.. Give me a break, why aren't you complaining about all the illegal immigrants in this country popping out babies and receiving government handouts or medicaid at the cost of tax payers. The Duggars are not living on the government or recieving any tax payer handouts.
If this was not a white religious christian family, no one would have a problem with a hispanic family having 17 kids. What is so wrong with a family having has many children as they want as long as they are paying to bring these children into the world and not using your tax dollars.
The Duggars seem to be a happy family, with values.. Oh my gosh if they were on TV fighting and the oldest kids where abusing drugs, that would be good TV for some, but a family whom is debt free with wonderfully well behaved and talented children being knocked in this way is sickening..
The freebies they recieved where from corporations whom wanted advertising time, so what is the big deal.. Freebies are not a bad thing when a corporation is also benefiting.
I love this family for all there values and wish them nothing but the best in the future..
God Bless

Anonymous said...

Ha ha ha...

Pardon me. Ahm.

Some of the statements made on this thread are so outrageous as to be funny.

But let me introduce myself before going much further. I am 18, and the second oldest in a family of 8. I am currently attending a the United States Merchant Marine Academy, one of the nation's five federal service academies, and I am in the top 5% of my class academically (pardon me if I come across as braging, I am constantly humiliated here as I meet people who are better in many ways than myself).

As I post here, I feel as if I am representing the Dugger children. This is because my parents share many of their parant's philosophies, such as trusting God on family planning, homeschooling, modesty, etc. Furthermore, as I watched the Dugger videos and TV programs, I felt a certain kinship based on our similar backgrounds.

There are many issues I and misconceptions that I have seen here and would like to address. It should be noted that while I am addressing them, I am speaking from logic and experiance, and not mere philosophy as so many of the wrong posts above (yes, you are wrong, but I don't hold it against you because I know that if you knew ether the Duggers or my family personally, you would know and feel differently than you do now).

First, the notion that children from bigger families lack love is a reasonable conclusion based on a faulty premises. In the sterio-typical modern big family (haggard mom, aloof dad, wild kids) the kids do lack attention. But, for a number of reasons (organization, sacrifice, faith, etc.), families like the Duggers are not typical. In fact, when I was growing up, and even now, I observe a great deal more authentic love and quality time in my big family than in most two kid families I have known.

Secondly, we (children of big families) do not lack socialization! I am asked the "socialization question" all of the time. I am not going to present an argument for this point because I believe that the fact that I am successfully attenting a federal service academy, and was raised in a similar way to the Duggers, proves that children like us have the skills to function WELL in real life.

Thirdly, Arkansas is NOT overpopulated, and third world people starve because of corruption, not lack of natural resources.

Finally, I am afraid that I will have to cut myself short here due to a lab report that I need to finish tonight. But I will say one more thing. If you are a supporter of what the Dugger family is doing, don't worry about the Dugger kids being affected by the kind of negative comments posted above. Most homeschool families teach logic, and not much more is needed to see through the afore mentioned posts.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Thanks for coming by, cadet. Thanks for your witness, and your service.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your service as well, sir.

Anonymous said...

Marine guy,

Did you get your spelling and sentence structure abilities through homeschooling? It shows.

Anonymous said...

More important than spelling is the way you conduct yourself in a public setting. Wouldn't you agree that it is easier to teach a person to use spell check rather than teach them to be courteous and over look another faults? Your statement said so much more about you, anonymous than it ever did about marine guy.

Anonymous said...

If my comment was in any way less than courteous, I apologize. It was never my intention to do anything more then set the facts straight.

-"Marine guy"

Anonymous said...

No disrespect Marine guy, but we were talking about homeschooling. This whole homeschooling issue has gotten too big for the fundamentalists who are trying to persuade people to keep their kids at home and keep them isolated and sheltered.

That is one of the main gripes of people about the Duggar clan. They are making little clones out of each kid they spout out. Many in the Quiverfull movement (don't get me started on that topic) also push the homeschooling for those extreme fundamentalists who want their kids to only associate with like-minded kids. It's a cult mentality..which falls right along with twisting scriptures to read that you are sinning if you use birth control, you are sinning if you don't trust God for everything and heaven help the person who might actually use their brains to make wise decisions as far as the number of children they can reasonably afford to take care of.

Sad thing is that there are other families who are victims of this hyped-up, cult-like society. The Jeub family is another one who thinks that using birth control is a sin. And, they ALSO do homeschooling. Imagine that?? It's pretty pathetic when TLC and Discovery Channel thinks they have to parade these people out like a clown circus in order to get publicity for them.

These people are truly screwed up in the head if they think GOD wants them to have dozens of kids and homeschool them all. Those older kids get my pity.

Anonymous said...

To anonymous above:

First, I thank you for your respect, and you can be sure that I return it.

However, to address you concerns, I would like to add a little to what I have already said.

In response to your first paragraph:

When you talk about homeschooling, you do talk about me, because I was homeschooled K-12 with the exception of first grade.

In response to your second paragraph:

First, your statement about the homeschool lifestyle sheltering kids too much does have some basis in reality; some homeschooling kids really are too sheltered. However, although I cannot speak for the Duggars on this issue (because I do not know them personally), I can speak for my family, and all others I know (which would be about seven), in saying that this is not the case for all homeschooling families.

I am going to step outside of the realm of fact and logic for just a little bit to present you with a metaphor which may help you to understand this. Consider, for a moment, that a little child is like a seed or a small sprout. If this sprout is kept sheltered in a basement, away from sun light, it will most likely grow up sickly. If, on the other hand, it is planted directly outside, it may succumb to the harsh weather or weeds of this world. The safest place to have it, then, would be in a green house, where it would be mostly sheltered until it is ready for the outside world.

Secondly, as for cloning, matching cloths do not make for matching personalities. Again, I cannot speak personally for the Duggars on this one, but in my big, homeschooled family, we were taught to test everything based on logic, reasoning, and the word of God. We are definitely not mindless clones (if this is what you meant by little clones).

Finally, you said:

“…which falls right along with twisting scriptures to read that ... you are sinning if you don't trust God for everything and heaven help the person who might actually use their brains to make wise decisions as far as the number of children they can reasonably afford to take care of.”

I would encourage you to search the scriptures on the issue of faith and trust in God. You will find such verses as:

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge him, and he will direct your paths. (Proverbs 3:5-6)

Also, read Hebrews 11. You will find that those who Paul sets forth as examples of faith are people who considered the word of God above such factors as "reasonably afford" (Abraham, Joshua, Rahab, etc.).

Now, the infamous “quiver full” verse:

Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one's youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their enemies in the gate. (Psalms 127:4-5)

This verse implies that many children are a good thing, not a “truly screwed up in the head” thing.

I would NEVER judge someone because they use contraceptives. God save me if I ever become like that. God’s plans for some families will include being small. But I would say that if one considers that having many kids can glorify God, but rejects this possibility (and uses contraceptives) because it is too much of a sacrifice, then he is missing out on what God can do with him when he trusts Him.

In your last paragraph:

“Those older kids get my pity.”

I am an “older kid”. You do not have to pity me; the bonds I have with my younger sibling are bonds that I would not give up for the world.

Please consider thoughtfully the things I have suggested here.

Your Servant,

“Marine Guy”

Anonymous said...

Keep up the good work Mr. & Mrs. Duggar.:-)

HOME SCHOOLING is the best for LARGE FAMILIES. FREE CAMP OUT for HOME SCHOOLERS.

http://www.homeschoolercampout.com

Blessings to families, children, churches, and home schooling,

Shalom,

Anonymous said...

I just saw on another site that Michelle & Jim Bob do in fact have # 17 on the way...Jennifer Daniell is due July 25th, with Michelle now at what the medical profession so lovingly (and accuratly!) discribes as "advanced maternal age". This little ditty encompasses way more than the higher than average likelyhood of a child being born with a mental or chromosomal problem. Child birth after the age of 35 ups your chances of having a child born with these problems from 1 in 1800 to 1 in 350. This is her what...3rd or 4th child in that age group...her chances are mounting with every pregnancy. Will TLC be there if God-forbid that this child is hanicapped in someway? But lets not be the fortellers of bad luck.

I was personally one of these Moms who chose to have another child at an "advanced age". At the time I had turned 40 in March and had our daughter in September. I had multiple complications that I had never experianced with any of my previous 3 children. I had extreme pre-elcampsia to the point where my daugher was taken by emergency c-section at 35 weeks. Praise the Lord she was a healthy 6lbs 7oz. I, on the other hand wasn't so lucky.

I had congestive heart failure, kidney failure, and so much fluid in my lungs that when they did a chest x-ray, they couldn't see my heart! I had so much medicine being pumped into my body it took 2 IV pumps to handle it all. After 6 days in intensive care, I was finally released with only 1 prescrption. I was, under no circumstances, to ever have another child. The damage to my heart was to extensive, and another pregenacy would be a death sentence. So long as she was our last child, I'm fine.

Now, do you think I went in the face of the Doctors with some kind of "God will protect me" mentality and go on my merry way without using birth control and hoping for the best? You must be kidding! My husband tracked down a Urinary Specialist 1 month later and had a vasectomy. We were way to young and healthy to start sleeping in separete rooms if you get my drift.

What on earth are these 2 going to do if the statistics swing in the wrong way and something similar happens to Michelle? What are they going to do if her OB says...that's it Michelle, your Uterous is shot. If you get pregnant again, it could kill you! We will never know because it wouldn't be good for the ratings to find out that Jim Bob had to get clipped to avoid being what would esentially being a murderer if he got his wife pregnant again.

My point is this. My prayers are with Michelle & I hope that poeple realize that she is the exception, rather than the rule, when it comes to having children at her age. We have been there when she has had her ultra-sounds in the past. We've been in the delivery room & when the kids get to meet the new sibling for the first time. We know that she has had 2 c-sections in the past. She & Jim Bob take advantage of what modern medicine has to offer.

Paul, as a practicing Catholic, what would YOU do if you & your wife were in my situation? What would you hope to see the Duggers do if her Doctor tells her enough is enough?

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Paul, as a practicing Catholic, what would YOU do if you & your wife were in my situation? What would you hope to see the Duggers do if her Doctor tells her enough is enough?

The Extraordinary Wife and I use Natural Family Planning to know when she is fertile, and space our marital relations in accordance with whether we are trying to conceive another child or avoid conception.

This method uses scientific observation to know with complete confidence when intercourse might result in conception, and we are able to avoid conception -- or maximize our chances of it -- based on whether we come together during those periods.

This is consistent with God's plan that sexual relations should be within marriage and open to conception; but there's no obligation to have sexual relations when the wife is fertile.

Nobody says that anyone should have 16 or 17 kids if that's not their desire; but the vitriol I see here for the Duggars lifestyle choices is truly amazing.

Anonymous said...

Paul,

Congratulations on sending me scrambling for my dictionary to see what you were accusing me of when you used the word "vitriol". Webster's Pocket Version states: "Harshness or bitternes of thought or expression; reproach." Now, forgive me if I'm just being dense here, nothing I said was "vitrioles" I was merely courious, and perhaps thinking out loud (in print) as to what ANY fertile woman, not necessarily Michelle should do when another baby would mean more than adjusting the family expense account. I was talking about my own situation where another pregnancy (I am now 45, and still have regular monthly cycles; no menopause in sight!)would literally be life and death. Abortion would not be up for consideration even if it would mean my life or death if I continued a pregnancy. Therefore, at my age, when I may or may not be ovulating at a perfectly predictable time, my husband & I opted for the fool-proof method that we could (literally) live with.

Where do you suppose the term "menopause baby" comes from? Natural family planning sometimes runs amock when the wifes body may or may not ovulate at a perfectly predicatable time as she enters menopause.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

I never said you were being vitriolic; but many who have posted here -- as I'm sure you'll agree if you read through -- have been quite vitrolic indeed.

As to ovulation at "perfectly predictable" times, I suggest you read up on Natural Family Planning, if you've an interest in alternatives to artificial birth control. There's no predicting involved. It's all about ovulation. It works equally well with irregular cycles as with any other.

Anonymous said...

From what I understand, Jim -Bob & Michelle originally started their abstinance from birth-control after suffering a miscarraige while on "the pill". Now, I have no medical degree, but I have had 2 miscarriages while not only NOT on "the Pill", but actively trying to conceive a child. Here's what my obstratician shared with me.

Nearly every sexually active woman will have a miscarriage in her life time. She may only be a few days late with her cycle, or have an unually heavy flow. Point being, before a woman had the option of going the the corner drug store & had to go to her Doctor for a pregnancy test & then wait a week or more for the results (remember the "rabbit test...absolutely true)she probably didn't even know she was pregnant, at least not for sure.

My christian Doctor, who saw my grief and how much I was blaming myself & questioning everything from my womanhood, to God Himself; patiently explained that this was God's way of fixing what wasn't meant to be. A baby with physical or mental abnomalities that never would survive outside the womb.

What if the Michelle hadn't been on "the pill" at the time of her miscarriage? Hundreds of thousands of women had miscarriages before the invention of the pill.

I don't know what the risk factors are for miscarriage on the pill versus off the pill. But I will say this: Suffuring through the miscarriage of a baby is tough enough without thinking that something you did could have caused it. We know that a miscarriage is what put in motion the Dugger family not using the pill again. What if she had never lost that baby, or had never gotten pregnant with that baby in the first place? Who knows how many ways that miscarriage changed their lives. Michelle herself on one of the specials said that they never intended at the start of their marriage to have this many kids. They may have stopped at 2 or 3 and we never would have heard of them because they would have been just like every one else.

Here's a thought. With the number of children that Jim-Bob & Michell have,the odds are that one of them (or their spouse depending on boy or girl) will sadly suffer a miscarriage. They will, no doubt, embrace the same "natural family planning" that you talk about, so they won't have an outside chemical stimulant to pin it on. (For that matter, we don't know for sure if Michelle herself hasn't had another miscarriage herself since then. For most people, that is an extremely private time that you don't feel like sharing with the whole world.)


A Happy P.S. Four months after my second miscarriage, I became pregnant for the 3rd time; as they say, the charm. My beautiful baby girl is as perfect as she can be this side of heaven.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Anonymous, I'm delighted to hear that your story has a happy ending.

As to Natural Family Planning (NFP), I would be very surprised to learn that the Duggars are using that method. My impression is that they are simply open to new life, and make no effort to avoid it.

My Extraordinary Wife and I use NFP, rather than any artificial method, to choose when and whether to have additional children.

My point about birth control and the Duggars is that most of the criticism I see here about them is that they ought to use some sort of birth control, and I strongly disagree with that notion.

When the Supreme Court decided Griswold v. Connecticut in the 60s, they said that the Constitution enshrines a right to birth control. That "right", 40+ years down the road, has for many people become an absolute obligation. They call it, in Orwellian terms, "being responsible".

Most of the people I exchange comments with here don't even seem capable of coneiving of the idea (agree with it or not) that someone might simply choose to reject birth control, and happily accept the children that come as a result of their marital relations.

But that, at bottom, is what makes the Duggars so unusual, even countercultural.

And the dominant culture really, really resents that.

Anonymous said...

these people are scammers.
~the discovery channel gave them 100,000 dollars for the house

` they have been getting free food,toys,cars,clothes from shelters and t.v shows because they have an unusualy large family

` discovery paid for their road trip and mapped it out( that' why every stop they made camera were allowed to film)

`their kids will go to college if you count the 30 day online courses the oldest is taking(for law...ahahahahah)

`they were able to support the first few kids early on because of church donations(pity donations due to them being idiots)and starting the buddy system so they could leave the kids alone for extended hours of time(homeschooling is free if you use the same school books for 19 years and don;t need to buy lunch) did I mention they don't even have to pass the state exams to say they can go to the next grade...they only have to participate...brilliant scients of tomorrow they are

`and noone has mentioned the potential for neglect, child abuse, and incest

`none of them will ever marry unless it is arranged and plus that would mean leaving home

`they can't afford medical insurance for all of these kids and having a child is the worst thing you can do to your body especially when it is 17 times...We the people get to pay for her crap and urine bags when she is 50 because her muscles are to loose to hold anythig in.

`when they di young...and they will the older children will most definitely have to take care of the younger ones, and without any real world experience who and how do you think is going to pay for that.

`

`

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

having a child is the worst thing you can do to your body

Now, if that's not a liberal, anti-life, anti-family rant, I don't know what is.

and noone has mentioned the potential for neglect, child abuse, and incest

Which proves nothing other than that you didn't read the 113 comments preceding yours.

Once again, in the liberal lexicon, "choice" means the choice to abort and contracept, not the choice to have children and raise a family.

Anonymous said...

To the blogger above Pauls last entry...

I'm not sure which is more laughable; your ingorance of life or the Enlish language. While I am not a huge supporter of Home schooling, you obviously absorbed nothing in the public system.

You are truely a sad individual who obiviously has more on his/her heart than how many babies the Duggers do or do not have, and how they support them.

I am praying for you.

Anonymous said...

I have read this blog from time to time (usually after one of the shows has been on TLC just to see what kind of storm has been kicked up!)

I saw a show today on Discovery Health Channel today on another family who has 16 kids. The family is The Heppner's. They caught me eye because they are from Minnesota, just like me. Way up in the northern part of the state. (One of those places you see on the news in January for having the coldest tempratures in the country!)

They met as 17 year old kids at a Baptist Bible Camp. (Sound familar?) The second year that they saw each other, hormones took over and the girl got pregnant. Boy panics and splits for Europe. The baby girl is 11 months old before her daddy sees her for the first time. He convinces her that he is a changed man, begs for forgivness and proposes. She says yes. They continue to get pregnant in spite of using 2 kinds of birth-control. They chalk it up to Gods Will and have 6 boys in 7 years before having another little girl. (Boy is this wierd!)

All the kids have Biblical names :Micah, Sampson, Moses, Susan,Ben, Etc...

While the girls wear t-shirts & jeans; they don't look like something out of an MTV video. They do, however, wear their hair long. They happily talk about wearing hand-me-downs. and ride around on bikes that they have put together themselves out of parts of other bikes that have been donated!

The kids are all homeschooled. The 2 oldest boys are out on their own having started their own building companies, the next 5 are all at NDSU in Fargo studing enginering including the 17 year old who tested out early! (Okay, now this is REALLY getting wierd.) Wanna know what Dad does for a living? He's in construction. He builds houses for a living. Real ones out of wood and nails, not a glorified erector set that someone else had to come in and finish. The kids all sleep at least 3 or 4 to a room in bunk beds.

The older kids all have younger "buddies". The don't have a TV in site. At the building site of their second house, their sitting around the campfire playing guitar and singing Bible Camp songs. Mom talks about getting up before all the kids to have her quiet time with God. Most of the interview with the Mom & Dad togather they are snuggled up in a giant hammock. They admit that the first few years were very rocky and that they got marital counseling. But their 27 year old daughter says that they act like newly-weds now.

They show the Dad praying with his kids at bed time & comforting one who doesn't want to sleep ALONE, yet admits there have been times that he has called one of his kids by the wrong name. They share a story of leaving one of the kids at a restaurant when he went to the bathroom instead of going to the car, like he was supposed too.

Coming from Minnesota, they have 2 huge gardens & go deer hunting in the fall for venison meat. Only 9 of the kids are still at home but Mom still makes bread from scratch. The show followed her to the grocery store before a big trip up to the site of the second house and her eyes bugged out when her bill came to 300+ dollars. Her weekly budget is around $100.00. But her kids are all out of diapers and off formula. The Dugger bill will drop too, if they ever get past that stage! ***wink***

So, what makes the Duggers so entertaining. Whats the difference between them & the Heppner family? Their both Bible believing, homeschooling, housebuilding, buddie-using, van driving, non-birthcontrol families.

I believe it's because the Heppners could live right up the street and no one would give them a second thought. The Duggers have chosen to call attention to themselves, and that's fine. America lives to be entertained, and the Duggers deliver. They project a text-book life that most people would love to live, without a bump in site. Yet, here is another family, nearly identical in family history, and beliefs, yet somehow more human. The wife of one of the oldest boys recognized his name when she was introduced to him by a friend. She ask if he was related to that family that has like 20 kids and rides around in an old school bus and lived out in the woods. He told her he WAS one of the kids in the bus!!! She married him anyway & now they have a baby one the way. The Dugger kids might not do so well as they get older. Not everybody is going to want that kind of attention.

Anonymous said...

Dear Webmaster,

Thank you for removing my post. I had forgotten that we lived in Nazi America and our thoughts should be censored for us! Again, THANK YOU!

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Dear Webmaster,

Thank you for removing my post. I had forgotten that we lived in Nazi America and our thoughts should be censored for us! Again, THANK YOU!


It's my blog, and I'll delete who I want to (... delete who I want to, delete who I want to).

Besides, your comment contained no thought, only naked contempt, badly expressed.

Anonymous said...

I thought about giving my intellectual two cents but, after reading the what I guess you have labeled comments that contain "thought" I had decided to point out the shear hilarity behind this so called "debate". I realized that anything I could say, even if it is based in irrefutable fact, could easily be shot down by fanatics saying that G-d supports their hopes, dreams and aspirations to copulate in such an extreme. Also, what is the point of having a blog open to public opinion if you have the right to remove any comments that don't please you? Social irresponsibility is seen on two planes here...both on the part of the Dugger's and on your part. Good day sir!

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

And once again, we see the liberal contempt reaction.

I have a blog to express my opinion. I make welcome those comments I choose to make welcome, which is by far the majority of those which are offered. I have no obligation to allow any comments, nor all comments. If you'd don't like it, click here.

If you think you have an irrefutable fact, by all means, bring it along, and we'll see just how irrefutable it is. But I hope it's something new, and not the judgmental claptrap about people shouldn't have so many babies.

If they can support 'em, and they can, why shouldn't they have them? It's evidently a home that's filled with a great deal of love.

No one says you have to have more babies.

But if we must live in a land where "choice" is a right, why must that only be a right to abort and contracept?

If my freedom of religion means your freedom from religion, why doesn't your right to privacy -- on which the Supreme Court has hung the rights to contraception and abortion -- also mean my right (or the Duggars') to decline to abort and contracept?

Perhaps those who believe in God aren't the only "fanatics" here.

AR said...

Having so many children in a time when our population is literally exploding demonstrates the Duggar's ignorance at the very real problems our world is facing. First, religion is nothing but a concept invented by people. Humans invented the concept of religion to control others. The bible is just a book written, and re-written many times, by people. People wrote things in the Bible to control other people, basically using it as a set of laws. It's no more "religious" than our Declaration of Independence or Constitution. To use religion as a basis for breeding irresponsibly demonstrates that this family has no concept of basic science. Before the 1900s, many children died from common illnesses before their 5th birthday. Therefore, to have enough children to work on the farm that a family might have depended on, people had to have lots of children. If we still lived this way then it would be wise to have lots of children. However, we live in an age where, in modern societies, children generally reach adulthood. Basic illnesses are warded off with antibiotics. Even children with severe disabilities can live to adulthood. Irresponsibly overpopulation the world, as the Duggars are doing, is ignorant. If people continue to be this irresponsible then our government will have to eventually institute population control measures, either through reverse incentives for having kids (i.e., higher taxes) or strict regulations on how many children each family can have. Of course, the same families that have many children are often the same ones who are cruising around in huge cars and burning gas, not realizing the price we're paying right now to have access to such fossil fuels.

jennifer said...

I had never heard of this family until I saw a news story today of the birth of the 17th child. I think it is wonderful when a family decides they will let God's will prevail in their lives, even in family planning. My husband and I were married 6 1/2 years ago. We also made this decision. We decided when we married, however many kids our Lord God wanted us to have we would and we would not interfere with artificial means either to prevent or to produce a child. About 6 weeks after we were married I got pregnant. Our daughter was at our 1st anniversary with us as a 6 week old baby. I am now 9 weeks pregnant with our 2nd child. We have never used any form of birth control. Contrary to popular belief, YOU DO NOT GET PREGNANT EVERY TIME YOU HAVE SEX! You can only facilitate the possibility of a preganancy. God gives the child. If you will read the fact sheets at the OB/GYN or Health Department closely about pregnancy chances with different types of birth control you should notice, if they put it on there in your area, that "no birth control" has about a 75-80% "success rate" at not producing a child. Which the flip side would mean that only 20-25 % chance of getting pregnant. Not only that but while breastfeeding at least every 3 hours of less, chances of ovulating are very low. These people are just doing what they feel led to do and if I had to venture a guess about some of the people critisizing them, I would say they have not even taken the time to see what God wants them to do in their lives. This family makes them feel guilty about their own lack of relationship with God the Father and with the Lord Jesus Christ because it makes them see their need and at the same time their unwillingness to follow HIS PLAN for their lives!

travelgirl said...

i guess my real question about this family is - why in the world do they need to keep having babies? why not stop at 6, or 8 or 12 for crying out loud? is it *really* necessary to have an entire football team in the house? it just seems ridiculous to me.

it's called birth control, people. look into it. learn it, love it, live it. there's no reason to have a family that size anymore. no one is working on the farm and darning clothes by hand. this is the 21st century. it's just not normal to have a family that large. and for all the praise for how they're not on the dole and yada yada yada, they're not helping the environment with their 18 loads of laundry a day and such.

or, if they are so against birth control, practice some self-restraint perhaps. i don't get how they find the time to have sex at all with that many kids in the house to begin with. and what woman wants to spend a fourth of her life pregnant? good lord!?! that's just pure insanity.

and also, i find the family creepy. i do. while religion is all great and everything if that's your thing (personally i find most religions to be a big load of rubbish and that whole "living as god intended" is just a huge cop-out from taking responsibilities for your own actions), i just find it disconcerting that they are on television. it seems a bit of an oxymoron that this family with all their values and whatever, is exploiting themselves on tv. what's the need? why not just keep breeding away out of public eye? that's what i find most bizarre.

i just wanted to put my two cents in. everyone has a different opinion. pro-lifers and pro-choicers will never see eye-to-eye on something like this, but we all have a right to state our opinions.

realeyes said...

Stories about breeding couples like the Duggars are both sickening and frightening. With breeding stock like them, combined with the flood of illegal aliens inundating the United States, our population will continue to skyrocket! Our country, and the world as a whole is rapidly running out of "the haves" with the financial and social capacity to care for the "have-nots." Coping with poverty, disease, crime, natural disasters, etc. is now beyond the ability of the "developed world" to handle. The demands of the worls's burgeoning population are exceeding the Earth's carrying capacity. We have created a global, human ant hill, with inadequate human and natural controls. There is little room left on the wire.

Anonymous said...

Some of the comments suggest the Duggars shouldn't have the choice to have more kids - I'd bet most of these posters would be up in arms if denied some other kinds of reproductive 'choices.'

Vix said...

Firstly, yes there is a population issue on this planet, in this country. Is it fair to expect older children to rear younger siblings to this extent? My question is how do the children have any individuality? They all look alike, the girl set wear their light brown hair long, the boy-set wear their light brown hair short, they dress alike...they don't even get to have unique first name initials. Hey JD! Who me? 17 stepford children seeking an identity answer.

Anonymous said...

"We have dominion over the earth and the creatures. They are for our use. Yes we have stewardship of them. But God never intended for us to think about the welfare of trees etc. over the human being."
Is it not a logical deduction that the welfare of trees (and other natural resources) directly correlates to the welfare of humans?

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Is it not a logical deduction that the welfare of trees (and other natural resources) directly correlates to the welfare of humans?

I agree completely. And if you're considering the welfare of trees in terms of their long-term utility to humans, then I think you're on the right track.

Anonymous said...

With each full-term pregnancy and delivery, a woman shortens her life-span by 95 weeks. The Duggar children will be orphaned very soon.

Anonymous said...

Meanwhile, there are hundreds of thousands of American children waiting in vain to be adopted.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

With each full-term pregnancy and delivery, a woman shortens her life-span by 95 weeks. The Duggar children will be orphaned very soon.

The lady is reported to be in excellent health. Liberal willingness to diagnose health issues over the internet based seems destined to lead to a new industry of on-line medical practice.

Meanwhile, there are hundreds of thousands of American children waiting in vain to be adopted.

While there is no doubt that adoption laws and policies need a serious overhaul in most places, you seem to be suggesting that there should be a limit on people's legal license to have children, after which they should be forced to adopt.

So? If this is a topic of such concern for you, how's your adoption application going?

I should have long ago ceased to be amazed at "liberals'" willingness to employ legal sanctions to limit people's freedoms.

Anonymous said...

OK, Y'all, just chill.

CHILL

Yes, chill. And stop hating on us. You all are standing at a distance and making great judgments about a lifestyle you don't under stand.

Yes, I am from a Duggar-like family. And I have a few words to say. First of all, similar hair cuts and cloths do not translate directly into homogeneous personalities. In fact, my brothers and I are the wackiest, most fun-loving, most different (from each other) group of guys you would care to know.

Secondly, where has America's love for children gone? Why am I reading multiple comments about distaste for all the little Dugger kids written by females? I am a guy, and I think that they look adorable. But of course, that is probably because I have six younger siblings, and love every one of them to death.

But enough of my tirade.

I must say just one more thing. If you all manage to get that child tax law thing passed, I'm moving to Canada.

OK. That’s all.

Happy bloging.

Anonymous said...

Here's what I'm curious about...

People are so livid over how the kids are dressed, fed, educated, transported, entertained, and raised in general as if any of it is coming out of our pockets. We turn in to TLC and set up our TIVO's & DVR's just in case it's an episode we've missed. Some people have gone so far to state the the only reason that the Duggers put themslves on TV is for the perks. Getting TLC to finish up and furnish the house for example. People are absolutely furious that the Duggers are profiting (for lack of a better phrase) from the size of their family.

BUT; when a famliy who is having reproductive troubles and spends thousands on top of thousands of dollars to go through invitro, or whatever medically assisted ventures they need to, to conceive a child yet stands wringing their hands because their living in a tiny little 3 bedroom 1200 square foot house and now they have 5 or 6 babies and all gear that comes with them. NO ONE says anything about them begging off the community to build them a bigger house, give up time out of their personal time to fed, burp, change, and bathe somebody else's kid because THAT family was so in love with the idea of having a baby, they never stopped to think about where they were going to put them all. The beaming Dad & exshusted Mom stand their with tears in their eyes on 4 different network 5 O'Clock news shows and thanks every one for their genereosity and the whole country feels all warm & fuzzy because those sweet little babies have a 2200 square foot roof over their heads.

And they just might end up like "Jon & Kate + 8" and get their own WEEKLY show. How much do you suppose TLC is paying for that contract? And Kate's got such a smart mouth on her when she talks to her husband I wouldn't blame him for slapping the hell out of her when the cameras go off!) Do they have a blog site where some on is bashing the way their kids are being raised?

People...stop being such hypocrits about this family. It's not the number of kids, the names, the home schooling, or any of that. Contrary to Paul's belief, I don't really think birth control (or the lack of it) is the point either. I would be willing to bet that for the most part, the angry entries on this site are written by people who are, on some level, jealous.

People who were raised by a single Mom who had 5 kids by 5 different men and none of them stayed around.

Maybe they were raised in a "perfect" home: Mom, Dad, great house, the best schools. But never had dinner together except for holidays. They have parents who are closet alcholics, wife beaters, had an affair with the mail man.

Or worse yet; got attention of the worst kind, and were molested and can't differentiate between a Dad who pulls his little girl on his lap to read her a story & the one who sneaks into her room at 2:00 am.

People fear most the things they don't understand.

Anonymous said...

While i agree they have a right pump out as many pups as they want. I think after 10-11 they shoulda took pause and thought about the kids for a min.

In extreamly large familys like this emotional abuse is quite common.

That and the fact they are Christian fundys is disturbing.

They are home schooling these kids. That is also a major issue not touched on much here. Most places will not higher you if you do not have a High school diploma.

These folks will eventually end up as welfare recipients when they can't find a job because they couldn't get into collage.

and i also have to agree with a prev poster.. They sure have hit the big bucks with having so many kids.. Nice to be able to have people just give you things etc

Mehh..

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Once again, another commenter with nothing new to say; I've addressed it all before.

He can't stated fundamentalists, the kids are abused, homeschooling doesn't work, no one should give them anything. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

You guys need a new handbook to quote from, this one's too old and dog-eared.

Wrong on all counts, and intolerant to boot. Once again.

Anonymous said...

I'm 18, the oldest of 8 kids. Home-school graduate. For all the skeptics, I just wanted to put in my two cents and say it IS possible to have a life and enjoy it fully in a big family!
Being in a big family doesn't mean we are cloistered, uninformed and uneducated clones! Sure, we're together most of the time, but that doesn't mean we don't have other friends. As for being uneggycated... (yeah, I can spell :) I don't know what public standards are, but... In 9th grade I had high school graduate test scores. I got a perfect score on the SAT reading comp section. My 14 year old brother took a history CLEP exam this summer--- scored a whopping 71 out of 80. He's taking a Paralegal program from a law school right now. Our 8 year old likes to read the Wall Street Journal. (I'm not kidding!) 11 yr. old sis loves geometry and wants to be a famous artist. My 4 yr. old brother can read. I think you'd have to say my mom did pretty well for us. Unfortunately, we have a really dumb dog. He doesn't even understand "sit!"
Yes, I do lots of laundry and dishes and diapers and cooking... but I'm not a drudge. I like poetry, play 4 instruments tolerably well, and one of my ambitions is to be quadra-lingual someday. I like music, lattes, and talking with friends. I'm a real person!
My dad and mom still go on dates together, and my mom doesn't look older than 35. We're happy, healthy, non-perfect, well-adjusted kids.
So please, don't rant on us just because we need two carts at the grocery store. The fact that we like to wear matching outfits once in awhile doesn't mean we're cookie-cutter images of each other on the inside. We're not alien morons. We are not brainwashed or plotting global domination.
Sorry this turned out so long... It just really gets annoying to hear the word "tolerance" bandied about so much, and then to read all the intolerant remarks about how we're white supremacists endangering the country or something. Glad you're all employing your freedom of speech though. Thanks Paul for standing up for us :) --- I appreciate what you had to say. Sounds like you have a great family! Happy blogging.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Thanks for your kind words, and thanks for posting your story!

Anonymous said...

This is just for the record.

If you were to read a post from several months ago (which I wrote), you would find that anonymous from two posts above this one is not alone; my family of 10 has an excellent reputation in my community.

And incase anyone does not care to scroll up in order to find Paul's often stated answers to the third post up, I have provided some refutations myself:

"In extreamly large familys like this emotional abuse is quite common."

On what authority? TV? Books? Research? Please support yourself... (you cannot).

"Most places will not higher you if you do not have a High school diploma."

Do you own a 'place'? Because if you do, you place exists in the opposite of reality. In most places, homeschoolers are in demand.

"These folks will eventually end up as welfare recipients when they can't find a job because they couldn't get into collage."

(Are you joking? No, really?) You do not know this, because a lie cannot be known. I AM WRITING THIS POST FROM A COMPUTER ISSUED TO ME BY THE COLLEGE WHICH I AM ATTENDING... A COLLEGE WHICH, BY THE WAY, IS CONSIDERED EXTREMELY HARD TO GET INTO.

In this country, we have a right to freedom with our words. But when you treat a freedom so carelessly, although you are legally in the clear, you are morally wrong (if we define a careless lie as wrong). And I do not mean all of this to insult you, but just to bring to your attention that you are being careless with your words in ways that can hurt others.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Well said!

carliesmama said...

In response to a couple of things that I've read here...

There have been some comments about the family and their medical bills. The family has never claimed to be on welfare, and there's no way they would quailfy for it anyway. Surely no one is stupid enough to think that TLC is footing their medical bills. So unless they are paying for everything out of pocket, there only one other possiblity.

I was raised by a self-employed stay at home Mom & Dad {Don't get too excited; it wasn't always so cool to have Dad around the house 24/7} and there are dozens of health insurance packages out there for self-employed people. {Jim-Bob has said on several occasions that he is a real-estate agent and has used car lots. This also qualifies him as a small business owner for anybody who works for him. I'm sure they would appreciate having insurance as well.} I would love to see the family medical diary as far as stiches, broken bones, ear infections, bad tonsils, yearly shots, and last but not least OB/GYN appointments and delivery room fees!

There have also been several comments made about the family claiming the house as a church and getting tax-exempt status for it. Now, I have neither the time, nor the inclination to do the research on this one, so I will accept this as fact. BUT, just because they have found a loop-hole, and the exemption is probably a huge one considering the size of the house; it doesn't extend to the land, and 20 acres is all taxable. Furthermore, anyone who does any type of at-home work, can do the same thing. My brother does computer consulting work from home part time. He set up his office in the basement of his house. He measured out the square footage, added in a separate phone line and even listed my sister-in-law as the office manager {which she was, so she even had payroll stubs} and wrote off the whole thing as a business expense. By the time he was done, he got money BACK on his taxes. There are opportunities out there for everyone, you just have to be creative enough to think of them and not be mad if you can't!

Anonymous said...

I would like to know what kind of toilet paper is used in the household....I have ten people total in my household and we go through 24 rolls of toilet paper in two weeks.

Shmuel said...

The only area where I agree with the critics is the laundry machines. I was raised in a family of 10 children, and we only had one washer and dryer, which were quite sufficient.

The hatred and vitriol from some posters here is truly amazing. Apparently, those who proclaim the virtues of liberalism and tolerance see no need to tolerate people who choose to have large families or who don't share their secular, materialistic values.

Karen Sherrill said...

I personally know the Duggar family... So much of what I have read is just silliness. Michelle has been my Titus 2 friend for years and our family loves them all very much. They are not Pentecostal...the church is a Bible Church...before we moved we went to church there. Yes, they have insurance. Knowing them and reading all this "carbon copy" stuff...well it's just silly. Jim Bob and Michelle are training their children to become adults...not just "go be a child and have fun" and then WHAM you leave home and are all "how do I do this?"...Don't get me wrong...they are all about having fun...and they spend more quality and quantity time with their children than most parents. They all feel loved and they respect their parents...not because they expect it, but because they have earned it by investing time with them. The older children have wonderful relationships with the younger children...yes they have issues with one another, but they work them out so that bitterness dosen't set in... Anyway, they are an encouraging and fun family to spend time with. My children have a blast spending time with them when we come home to visit. Especially Friday night broomball at the Jones Center!!! Their house is always open and we always feel welcome there. BTW, they have four washers and four dryers...they have a computer with internet and while they don't have cable(I don't either) or watch local channels they do have TV’s in their home. Jackson especially likes the "Wone Wanger"...:o)... yes, TLC did give them some money to finish the house and yes there were some donations...but they also put A LOT of their own money into the house. Actually, it's quite a testimony of following Gods will for your life and letting Him take care of the details. Yes, there were many friends that donated time, but we were also fed well and had wonderful fellowship while we learned how to do what was needed of us. Sorry if this post is choppy, but is early in the morning...I couldn't sleep and decided to surf the web...just wanted to put in my two cents...;o) .

Anonymous said...

Yes, I would like to comment. I have six children myself but this is ridiculous!!!! Are they really christians, they are always making babies!!!! Isn't enough, enough I think they are having more to take care of the next bunch and as far as I am concerned neither one of them are attractive. What's going to happen if they go under like half the U.S. is because of the economy then who is going to take care of these kids?? I have a message for them, learn about safe sex and keep your pants on. I would be so embaressed to go on T.V. telling everybody that I am having 18 kids. Who is watching these kids while thier in bed??

Embarassed for them

Rebecca Wilkerson-28 years old said...

I'd like to address Anonymous posted 5/9/08. Are you serious? If you are God help you it sounds like you 6 kids are driving you crazy, and you can't comprehend how 1 woman can manage and organize a household of 17 going on 18 children when you can't handle your own. God gives each of us our own special gifts and talents, Mrs. Dugger's is her family. I have 3 children and that's enough for me, only the couple having the children should decide what's right for their family. Then you have to make dirty comments-how bitter are you?- who watches your 6 kids while your in bed?, give me a break. About your comment "Are they really christians, they are always making babies" who misinformed you and said christians can't have babies, babies have absolutely nothing to do with christianity. I am 1 of 6 children, would I have 6 children? no. I'm to selfish, but thank God my mom had 6.


HAPPY FOR THEM & GOD BLESS!!!!

Population Moderation 2 said...

This post is a follow up to one above specifically address some of the other posters comments.

Some posters have automatically relegated those who oppose the Duggar's reproductive proliferation to the "vitriolic" category without really considering their concerns (see previous post). Some have suggested that families of multiples don't face the same sort of criticism as the Duggars. Others have even suggested that the poor, immigrants, and minorities have been given a free pass at breeding exponentially. I can't help but sense tinges of classism, xenophobia, and racism in that argument.

Well it really doesn't matter to me if this family were white or black, rich or poor, native to this country or immigrants, living in a first world nation or a developing nation, or produced a lot of children in a single birth or over a span of several births, the point is that 18 is too much.

The race or national origin of the family is immaterial, although some posters seem to relish the idea of quickly growing a majority population of white conservatives here in the U.S.

People in general, but poor people especially, regardless of country of origin, need to restrict their family sizes. Although it can be argued that the poor, especially those in developing nations, consume far less oil, raw materials, water and produce far less waste than their wealthier counterparts and therefore cause far less damage.

And any large family of biologically related children, no matter how they were birthed, is problematic (see previous post). There is no preference for multiple births or those who have utilized fertility treatments. I think that Jon and Kate are in the same boat as Michelle and Jim Bob. What’s more they’ve all capitalized and profited from their large broods. As I’ve said in a previous post, middle class families don’t get corporate handouts, why should they?

Population Moderation 1 said...

This post was meant to appear before the previous one....

Wow! Michelle Duggar is pregnant...again! Jeeze!

As I've posted previously, the reason I care about how many children the Duggars have, is that their choice affects my quality of life and my children's quality of life. I would love to have as many kids as my body could bring into this world. BUT I also have a responsibility to my son and the other people and creatures that I share this planet with to make sure my actions create the least negative impacts.

In reading an article from the Today show, Michelle Duggar estimated that her children have gone through 90,000 diapers and counting. 90,000!!!! That's just one aspect of their choice that we all have deal with. The article also mentions that they have 9 cars and bus. Considering that we are facing an energy crisis and our dependence on foreign oil, the Duggar family uses a disproportionate amount of energy compared to the average household. It takes a lot of resources to sustain a large family and if more people made that choice, our quality of life would quickly erode.

And speaking of quality of life, some posters point to inaccurate "statistics" that prove the whole population of the Earth could fit into Texas or Florida. Besides the fact that this is utter nonsense, who the heck would want to live like that?

Look at countries like China and India which are HUGE. Take a look at how people in their cities live and get a glimpse of the world's future if population were to go unchecked. The reality is, not all of the Earth's available land is hospitable for human habitats. We don't have the option to continue spreading into every nook and cranny of the plant.

Not to mention, there are many places across the Earth that remain wild and uninhabited by humans and they should stay that way. Think about how wonderful it is to go camping in Yosemite or Yellowstone. If the world's population continues to grow unchecked, those great places of beauty might not be available to future generations.

So ultimately, I will only allow myself to have one more child (a total of 2). This is not only the right decision for me as an individual, but also the right choice for a society and world that enjoys a high quality of life.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

So, population moderation2, you seem to believe that people are pollution. Why have even a second child? If you believe that the world is overpopulated, isn't it selfish of you to have even one more child?

In fact, why did you even have the one you have? You know better, you should have more concern for the people you have to share the planet with.

Shouldn't you have been like that woman in England who had herself sterilized for the good of the planet?

How does it feel to have someone question your right to choose your own family size?

Anonymous said...

Wow Moderation, it is very obvious that you are without God. You used India as an example? Have you done research on how their decisions have back fired in their face? THEY MURDERED THEIR BABY GIRLS so they could have boys. Now they have a overpopulation of boys and oops..no girls..kinda hard to populate in the future don't you think? I think it is obvious that India has brought judgement on itself and you will see them crumble for the murders of those babies. But don't worry, you too will see judgement on America, because we too have murdered over 45 million unborn children for the sake of freedom of murder..I mean choice.

I think it boils down to that these people complaining are people who are without God. They have no faith and no purpose in life. They see a happy thriving family who the Lord has blessed abundantly and they are jealous. What you need is the salvation of Jesus and then you would see the beautiful blessings of this family. These children will contribute more to society than you or your offspring ever will. If you are not doing the work of the Lord than you are doing the work of satan.

God bless the Dugger family!

Anonymous said...

I have one question and one comment. I know a lot of Baptists and all of the woman and girls wear pants and crop pants. Why do the Duggar girls wear only long skirts or dresses?

When I watched the show last evening something made me very sad. A comment was made that when one of the children needed some one on one time with mom or dad, they actually had to schedule an appointment. I'm of the belief that a child deserves parental attention 24/7 and unconditionally. Depending on the nature of the need, I find it almost cruel to make a child wait any length of time for advice or nurturing. If by their own admission, this is a fact, then I think it is perhaps time to evaluate their situation and realize the immense responsiblity they have chosen to undertake and ask themselves if they are meeting that responsibility.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

I'm of the belief that a child deserves parental attention 24/7 and unconditionally.

Do you not have children yourself?

If you do, do you also give them all the toys and candy they want?

No one can give their child attention 24/7, and I can think of few things that would be worse for a child.

The Duggar children are home all day with their mother. If there is an immediate need, I've no doubt that they can get spontaneous, immediate attention. Please don't be overly literal in thinking that by appoint is the only time that they can get time with their parents.

Anonymous said...

I think the Duggars are great! I am a mom of 8 children, so far. We are also open to life and we homeschool. The comments some people are leaving about this family is just a testimony to how uneducated and bias our country has become. Can you people say selfish? The Duggars are obviously very generous people and they live by the principals that Christ left us. That is what is missing from our society today.

God Bless you Paul for being a good Catholic and sharing your thoughts on this great family.

Your welcome to visit my families blog at www.thefergyfarm.com

May God Bless you and His Mother keep you!

Jamie

Anonymous said...

Do you not have children yourself?

If you do, do you also give them all the toys and candy they want?


I do have children----5 of them---and no, I don't give them all of the toys and candy they want. But I don't even know how you got that from what I posted.

Between keeping house (and the children do help), doing yardwork, making meals, helping with homework,playing with them, and just listening to all of their questions and plans and ideas, I can't even imagine doing all of that with 13 more of them. I am not criticizing or judging them. It's not in my nature to do that. It just makes me sad for the children because it just isn't physically possible to give individualized attention to 18 children---at least not quality attention. There simply aren't enough hours in the day. Somewhere something is being sacrificed and I think it might be at the expense of the children. I wish them all well and God Bless them. But really, what is the point? I honestly don't mean to offend anyone here.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Anonymous, my point was simply that, with five children, you and I both know that you are not available 24/7.

One child wants to show you the picture they just drew, but another has a diaper that needs immediate attention, or worse, an injury that needs immediate attention.

As one person, nor with your husband to make two, you cannot be available to any one child 24/7, as you suggested a child has a right to expect.

I apologize if I overreacted to your remark, but as you can see form the comments here, the Duggars get the most unreasonable criticisms here. Frankly, your suggestion that it's a child's right to expect a parent be instantly available 24/7 seems to fall in the absurd category.

Melissa said...

First of all, to the one that said they were concerned about college expenses for these kids. WHO CARES!! Do you think that the Duggers sat down and thought about this? Obviously not! I am sure they will get money from all the publicity they receive exploiting their "CHRISTIAN FAMILY" I also feel (if any of you have really paid attention) these kids lack MAJOR SOCIAL SKILLS. They do not go to a church they sit at home, they do not go to school, they sit at home. Did anyone stop to think about this. They all wear the same outfits.. That is INSANE, let them have their OWN personality's. I am sure that the Duggers do it this way to cut down on the cost of clothes. HOW are these kids going to COPE in REALITY when they are not allowed to be out in REALITY?? I think the Duggers really need to stop. They are selfish self centered idiots who keep having baby's to make money exploiting them on T.V. Unbelievable!!

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

No social skills? Are you sure about that? Not individuals? Have you met them? Listened to them even on TV?

What arrogance you display, Melissa.

Anonymous said...

I do wonder a little about their social skills. Do the children have individual friends their own age? Do the older ones go out to social functions and have a circle of peers? Do the little ones interact with others who aren't their siblings? I know they have one another and that is a lot of stimulation in itself. And perhaps that is good enough for them and their parents. Melissa you asked how do they cope with reality----I think that the Duggars want to be a self-contained unit. To me it seems that they aren't interested in conforming to the "real world" as most of us know it. The Amish are somewhat that way also. While they do interact with the English, as they refer to us, they do not adopt many of our practices and don't care to. They appear to be happy and don't bother anyone and live their lives the way they see fit.

My main concern still remains that with so many children it must be very difficult to nurture adequately and this is due to no fault of the children. They have been introduced to this life style and don't know any other.

I don't choose to live that way, I'm not sure I agree with it, but I cannot judge or condemn---only express an opinion.

CottonLily said...

I'm wondering if any of the last few posters have seen the shows, visited the website or know anything about the Duggars? They seem to have GREAT social skills. There are almost 20 of them just in their home, how many people must you surround yourself with to develop social skills? Some days I don't see that many people! They go to grocery stores, on vacation, to the lumber yard, softball games...They aren't hermits who never leave the house.

Melissa I must disagree with you about the Duggars exploiting their children and family. I feel most certain the Duggars didn't seek out the television company which produces their show. They aren't exploiting their family; they aren't doing anything any differently from the other personalities on reality TV. Everyone on TV gets compensated. That's not something exclusive to the Duggars.

And lets face it, none of us are able to give 24/7 attention to our children. Anyone who thinks differently is in fairy tale land. Even with 1 child you still have other things to attend to - grocery shopping, cleaning, cooking, time with other family, work, etc... No child can (or should) get your complete attention 24 hours a day. They do have to learn to be independent self-sufficient people, that's certainly as important as social skills.

Anonymous said...

I am just curious about the children's lives outside the family boundaries. Do they belong to any sports teams? Do they belong to any social groups other than the family unit? Do the older ones have part-time jobs outside the home? Do they go to the mall with their friends? Do they just hang-out with kids their own age? Or are they just sort of "clannish"---keeping to their own inner circle while extending courtesy to those outside the family but never really interacting with them.

Anonymous said...

Why are the girls being taught to be submissive to men and wear dresses and all that? How are they going to go to college? Are they learning to survive in the modern world?

Yes, Michelle has the freedom to do what she wants with her life. But she's screwing up 17 more lives. (And of course, the comically named Jim Bob is helping out)

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Why are the girls being taught to be submissive to men and wear dresses and all that? How are they going to go to college? Are they learning to survive in the modern world?

You object to dresses, you disrespect others' religious beliefs, and you make fun of their father's name.

You must be a feminist. I'll wager you have no children, but that you do you a cute dog.

Anonymous said...

Glad to see a little action on this site.

I've been thinking about the Duggar family lately and one question that comes to mind is, "why not adoption"? They say they are a Christian family, and I have no doubt that they are. They will accept as many children as the Lord sees fit to give them.

There are so many needy, homeless, pitiful babies and children in the world. Wouldn't it be a tremendous affirmation of their Christianity to offer love and security, home and family to some of those less fortunate. It would make a lot more sense then to continue with this uncontrolled propagation. Again, just my opinion. Does anyone else see it this way?

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Anonymous, how many kids have you adopted? Or is adoption just something other people should do?

And there's plenty of activity on this blog; just click the title at the top of the page to read the current posts.

Anonymous said...

Hi Paul,

My husband and I haven't adopted any children. We have 5 of our own. After our 5th was born we decided to stop. We based that decision on our financial as well as on our emotional capabilites.

Obviously, the Duggars are better equipped both financially and emotionlly to raise and educate a much larger family.

I posed the question about adoption based on what I have read and learned about the Duggars. They are a very "religion-oriented" family. They have a lot of love to give and appear to embrace a child-filled lifestyle. Wouldn't it be an extension of their Christian committment to open their hearts and their home to as many children as they could. What better way to serve the Lord than to love a child who might otherwise never experience family.

My husband and I struggle financially and there are times when we wonder if we will make ends meet. Yet we never for a minute resent having the children that the Lord has blessed us with.

You asked is adoption just for "other people"? Adoption is for anyone who is able to responsibly care for a child and offer that child love and security. It is not for a person or persons who know they cannot financially or emotionally provide adequately. The Duggars have proven they are capable of doing this and my personal opinion is that it would be an amazing tribute to their Christianity.

Anonymous said...

Hi Paul,

It's me again. I meant to say this on my previous post but forgot to.

My husband and I started our family quite young. We had our
5th child at 29. I guess you could call us young and dumb.

Anyway, now that we are older and wiser and think more rationally I often ponder the thought that we could have adopted before we had all five of them. Selfishly, I'm still so very glad that all 5 of them are our own natural children. But perhaps it might have been the Christian thing to do to stop at 2 or maybe 3 and then offer our love and our home to 2 or 3 adopted children.

Could of, would of, should of, ---whatever it's too late now. I guess wisdom comes with age.

My point is that the Duggars aren't that young anymore and certainly not dumb. And maybe, just maybe it might be something they should consider.

Anonymous said...

Deleting our entire conversation (from Monday night) was intellectually dishonest of you.

Apparently you were unable to defend your statements, and rather than suffer any embarassment, you took the coward's way out.

Is that the example you set for your children?

Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

When it comes down to it, christians always fall into the habit of hipocrisy. That's why it's so hard for the rest of us to take you seriously.

Your arguements fall away to nothing, when confronted by logic and reason.

Sadly, instead of taking a hard look at your own beliefs, you chose to hide from them.

It's easier to go along with your everyday bigotry, homophobia, and general hate-mongering than to consider the possibility that there is a another, kinder way.

Anonymous said...

You should really be ashamed of your actions.

Stand up and be a man, Paul.

Tell all your fans about your new-found philosophy.

How did you put it? Forgive me if I paraphrase - you did delete it after all...

"People should be left to make their own choices. We should not prescribe actions for others."

How, exactly, does that tie in to your stance on homosexuality? Abortions?

These are the questions you didn't want to answer. I think your detractors would be as curious as I what the answers would be.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

I don't know what you're talking about, you pathetic, moronic Obama supporter. I've been very busy this week, and haven't touched this blog. I certainly didn't delete any conversation with you.

Perhaps it occurred under one of the other Duggar posts?

How appallingly childish of you.

When I said that people should not choose how others live, I did not mean to suggest society has any obligation to tolerate the slaughter of the unborn by the millions, nor has it any responsibility to make over its most ancient and fundamental institution in order to please godless libertines.

Get a grip! And a life.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

And I was right; your prior comments were over at this post! I deleted nothing.

What a moron!

And the next time you want to post to the internet to call someone names, you might consider avoiding hypocrisy by including your name, address, and phone number.

LarryD said...

From a previous poster: "In reading an article from the Today show, Michelle Duggar estimated that her children have gone through 90,000 diapers and counting. 90,000!!!!"

Is it too late to buy Huggies stock?

Anonymous said...

I see the Duggars are having another baby girl this time. Congratulations to them!

Also, they have a whole new series coming out. I hope I can glean some more wisdom about making a big family work as smoothly as theirs does!

Angie
MOM of soon to be 12

roxyb said...

I have seen the Duggars on different shows in the past and wonder why there is such a fascination with this family? Although they appear to be raising their brood in love and faith, I can't help but ask, how many children is enough?

We live in a time where the resources of the world are becoming more and more limited. Is bringing this many children into the world a selfless or selfish act on their part?

I understand that these are people of great faith, but is this size family truly sustainable in these times? I only hope that they think of the rest of the residents of the world before they decide to create number 19.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Don't let myths of overpopulation fret you, roxyb! The world is not overpopulated!

If you put the entire world population into an area the size of Texas, we'd have less population density than Brooklyn.

The Duggars have plenty of room for their kids.

therese said...

I'll pile on my comment here too. I have no beef with what the Duggars are doing. I like to see larger families taking up some of the demographic slack for people like me, who only have one child, or my brother and his wife, who have none living (they have tried to concieve but only have three miscarriages to show for all their efforts.)

I would have liked to have had a larger family myself, but my husband said no after our first (and only) child turned out to be autistic. I suspect that he now regrets that decision but unfortunately, we're too old to do anything about it now, and we can't afford to adopt.

Frankly, sometimes I feel like a second-class or less than worthy Catholic, or perhaps completely undeserving of being a Catholic at all, because I was never able to convince my husband to change his mind. If I can't even evangelize my own spouse I must be pretty pathetic, huh?

Which brings me to another point. Yes, there is a strong secular prejudice against large families which is very misguided. However, sometimes I detect a bit of a prejudice against small families on the part of devout Catholics or other Christians who assume that if you don't have more than two kids you are being "selfish" or less than committed to pro-life. Well, I'd sure like to be but it takes two to tango and it doesn't matter how "open" to life I am if my husband doesn't go along with it.

Anonymous said...

I have a hard time reading all of the posts about how the earth's population would fit into an area the size of ______ (fill in geographic region of choice here)There is a lot more to life than having a place to stand. It takes space to grow the trees to build our homes (a whole lot of trees to build a 7000 sq ft home) and to grow the food we eat, etc. Most of the land on earth can not serve in these functions. We also have limited amounts of water to use for these things. I wonder if all of these "the world isn't over populated' commentators are taking these things into consideration

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Yes, we are.

But don't take my word for it, do the math yourself.

Tigger said...

They are just creepy... and the way the mom calls her husband daddy.. *shivers*

Jon and Kate plus 8 wouldn't be creepy if they had 10 more kids, they are down to earth people.

The Duggars, just seem like the kinda neighbors you'd want to keep a very close eye on.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Tigger, who are you supporting for President?

It wouldn't be Obama, would it?

Tigger said...

To be honest I haven't made up my mind yet.

Both candidates are a bit scary to me, neither really seems trustworthy.

Suppose it will come down to the lesser of two evils, as usual, which is sad considering the options.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

To be honest I haven't made up my mind yet.

Now, that's creepy!

Tigger said...

How so?
One the one hand you have Obama, who could be the one if only those ties to questionable people weren't an issue.

McCain, well.. he's old and might die then we'd be stuck with Palin.

Politicians can't be trusted.. power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.. :P

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

Well, on the one hand you have Obama, who voted against a bill to keep babies alive, and on the other hand, you have McCain, who didn't.

And then there's Tigger, who's more worried about the Gov. of Alaska than Bill Ayers and Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Anonymous said...

this is a crrrazy website! it's by far the dumbest website that I have ever stumbled on. you are all (mostly) religious freaks. just so you know i am never coming back to this website again, so whatever comments you respond with I won't see. nice picture paul, ha!

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

As crazy as your capitalization? As crazy as your skewed moral compass, tolerance of differing viewpoints, contempt for faith, and hatred of children?

That crazy?

I guess you'd be the expert.

Anonymous said...

My husband and I also chose to have a large family, although not nearly as large as the Duggers. We have 8 children, ranging in age from 39 to 25 and they, in turn, have given us 19 grandchildren, ranging in age from 19 to 3, all normal with narry a homosexual in the bunch. They each live in their own homes, no renters, and they are all employed and self-sufficient with no welfare or food stamps. My husband and I made our own life choices, including how many children to have, where we live and where to work. We own 10 properties and do pay property taxes, but my husband and one of our sons works out of the country, so we pay no income taxes. Our income is $120,000+ annually, and we are debt-free and rely on no one to help us with anything and never have. The same choices we have made can be made by anyone that chooses to do the same, so we feel that no one has the right to judge, critisize, condemn, or tell us we should or should not have done anything any differently. This country is big enough for my family and yours and if you choose to NOT have a large family, that is up to you, but you absolutely DO NOT have the right to tell me not to. The Duggers are amazing and have values that more than a few people could use. And yes, it is possible to have a large famiy that is that well-behaved. I received positive comments on my children all the time when they were growing up and we took them various places. We even went out to eat with no temper tantrams, screaming, running all over the restaurant or food throwing. We went to the grocery store without them pulling all the food off the shelves or screaming and crying for candy. We took them to the Wal-mart without them having to play with or demanding every toy in sight. Our children were expected to be on their best behavior and they knew it. A little discipline goes a long way. Some of you parents today should really try it. Then, maybe, the rest of us could eat in peace when we dine out, or not trip over all the toys your kids have scattered all over the Wal-mart when we go shopping.

Anonymous said...

In a recent episode of the Duggars, they went out for dinner and a show that had a confederate theme. The whole family was visably cheering and clapping for the soldiers in the show. Does this mean that the duggars support the views of the confederacy?Also what are the family's views on people from other cultures and races.

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

I really don't know. How tolerant of people with different lifestyles are you?

God's Way said...

dear machelle -

Just b/c someone is a licensed professional teacher doesn't make them morally fit to teach children. There are ALOT of stupid public school teachers out there... I had some of them myself. Parents have a right to teach/prepare their children how they see fit... I have alot of respect for homeschooled kids... they are some of the smartest kids I know. Us Christians view things from God's perspective,, not from sinful man/world point of view.

Anonymous said...

I have to say, I do have great respect for the fact that the Duggar family has that many children, they all seem to be healthy, they are all fed, clean, dressed, and know they are loved. I do have to admit that some of their actions/ways they raise their children seem a bit odd to me but honestly, I don't see that anything they have done is causing any harm to anyone. The diaper claim from someone earlier i can see as possibly being a very harmful thing but that is a simple solution, the Duggars could easily go to cloth diapers therefore not injuring the environment and saving them a TON of money on diapers, they can then use that money to feed the children or send them to college. I suppose my main concern with raising children as they have is how they could survive out in the world if they were plunged into it. Listing to the interviews on the TLC show the children seem to be level headed but I still hope that nothing happens to the family that the children would all be forced into the world head first. I think that would be my main concern with raising children as they have, just the fear of the real world and all the ugly it holds in it. Once again I do greatly admire them with what they have done. I hope that they keep close checks on Michelle's health since having that many children can have quite a strain on the body. I do wish them the best of luck in all they attempt. I would like to say that I do not see what attacking them outright in blogs, as some have done, achieves. Once again, do I agree with all their choices/the way they raise their children? Honestly? No, not really, but I have a very jaded view of the world as well and I do not have the faith in the world to be able to raise a child like that and not feel guilty about keeping that child over sheltered. This is MY opinion though and I do not think the Duggars are selfish, stupid people for doing things the way they have chosen. I admire the fact they do as well as they do, that their children are as level headed as they seem, and that they all seem happy and content with life. I can assure you if my mother wanted me to wear clothes from a second hand store when I was a teenager I would not have been happy about it. I would have been in the wrong, but I would not have been okay with that idea. Hurrah for individuals! They are hurting no one, perhaps those more negative blog comments should be focused towards the people with one or two children who do not support the children, or the fathers who drink away their money instead of sending money to the single mothers they are supposed to be paying child support to.

One final comment, I was wondering if anyone did ever say what denomination the Duggar family was. I started reading this blog trying to find out if they claimed a denomination but got distracted by random blog comments.

Thanks again,
Random_Surfer417

Anonymous said...

okay.... I do have to say.... I am a bit disgusted at Paul... putting comments like "you pathetic, moronic Obama supporter" and other political references in responses he has to people who have left comments on his blog... Call me whatever you want for posting this about your responses to your own blog Paul, but you do not know who I voted for (yes, I voted early to avoid longer lines on election day so I have indeed voted) but I have to say I do not think you would see the Duggars saying things like "you Obama supporter" or "i bet you support McCain if you say something like that" to other people. I do not see where jumping on people's political leanings gains anyone anything in a community such as this on the internet. I have to say I have heard people on both sides of the political fence say things that FLOORED me, and even more so when I found out what side of that fence they stood on.... I would ask you to please leave out political references in these comments to make this blog a much more pleasant threat. Having said that I realize, if I am not mistaken, that this is from a Pro-Life blog which in itself is political, so perhaps my entire request here is stupid but I wanted to get my request out there. Wish the best to all of you-- those who agree with me and those who do not. Once again it is much easier for me to sit here and say this considering it is not my blog that is being attacked or supported here.

Thanks again,

Random_Surfer417

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

okay.... I do have to say.... I am a bit disgusted at Paul... putting comments like "you pathetic, moronic Obama supporter" and other political references in responses he has to people who have left comments on his blog...

Random, perhaps you believe that people ought to be able to post their vitriolic, hateful and offensive remarks without a reply in kind from me.

I disagree. And unfortunately for your viewpoint, it's my blog.

If you want to make a blog (they're free), and write about the Duggars (an incredible number of people have read my posts on them, finding them from Google), and let people make their judgmental, anti-life, critical remarks, you're free to do that. And when you do, I promise not to come over there and return blow-for-blow to your commenters.

Anonymous said...

I have to apologize, I did not come across as I meant to I suppose. I do believe you have every right to reply to ANYTHING that anyone posts on your blog, especially the hateful and offensive ones. I suppose what bothered me was the fact that your response to certain comments contained things like 'you obama supporter.' Perhaps you are right on and they are obama supporters, but I don't know why it bothered me to read that but I did sit back and ask myself if it would have bothered me as much if you had responded with 'moronic McCain supporter,' and I decided it would have and that is the only reason I posted anything at all. Sorry if I offended you or if I still do, but like everyone else who has responded I suppose I wanted to get my thoughts out there, right or wrong. In all honesty since I am posting on YOUR blog in YOUR webspace then I would be the one in the wrong here for typing my above post. Blogs are a wonderful source of free speech, you are right that I could go out and get my own for free, I believe there are several responses here where people perhaps need their own blog to start a thread on their own space versus continuing to attack you on your page for your beliefs/comments. Boy, i have rambled on here. Sorry.... speaking of people taking up too much of other peoples space... Just wanted to clarify but i may have not helped clarify my point at all.

Random_Surfer717
(of course I also moronically hit the wrong key on my numberpad twice when I posted lastnight leaving the wrong tag for myself)

Paul, just this guy, you know? said...

No problem! The reason that I accuse people of being Obama supporters -- and I've never had anyone deny it -- is that it's my theory that the vitriolic, judgmental, anti-child, anti-person responses are coming exclusively from those who support the candidate of infanticide and abortion in all cases for all reasons.

Without denying that an Obama support might like the Duggars (unlikely but possible, in my opinion), I suspect that only an Obama would post their disapproval.

rls said...

Well guess what? I am a liberal Obama-supporting democrat! And my liberal thoughts are that I am a little surprised that people get so angry about the Duggars. There are many worse things you could do to your kids than give them brothers and sisters and teach them to love each other!

That being said, I know I would have issues with some of the things they teach their kids- I am a liberal afterall :) But as others have pointed out, what is the point of being a liberal if you can't be open-minded? I always assumed that being a liberal meant you wanted to people to live as they would like, as long as it doesn't hurt others. The Duggars seem to have a good life, and I can't see that they are hurting anyone, so why should this bother anyone?

I guess people can feel threatened when they see something they don't understand. That's true with liberals AND conservatives, I think.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that even though I can't imagine having more than my 3 kids, never mind 18!, I think it is great that they have made such a nice life for themselves and their family.

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